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I'm trying to fight my own bias here, but.. I really don't know what to think. On one hand I'm totally against cancel culture for things like: - How you voted

I'm trying to fight my own bias here, but.. I really don't know what to think. On one hand I'm totally against cancel culture for things like: - How you voted(e.g. Trump/Biden) - Your political views on any subject On the other hand, Stallman has called for the killing of babies with Down Syndrome. So, could I associate with someone like that? Could I comfortably work with someone that(for example) calls for the killing of babies if they where jewish, black etc.

CodeGlitch 6y ago
> On the other hand, Stallman has called for the killing of babies with Down Syndrome. Has he though? Has he actioned this idea, or was it just something he blogged about amongst 1000's of other thoughts that floated through his head? One of my life lessons I think is worth pointing out, is that people's actions are far more important than what they say. And this is the problem with modern western society: someone says something stupid and everyone jumps on them as an opportunity to further their own cause. So yes you can associate with someone like this, unless they DO something terrible.
- yrrr 6y ago
  Advocating for eugenics is doing something terrible. Edit: I don't have an opinion either way, just clarifying that I believe advocacy is action.
deadbytes 6y ago
>calls for the killing of babies if they where jewish, black etc. How is this in any way equivalent? Being jewish or black are not disabilities. Downs syndrome is a horrible condition that greatly impacts your quality of life. I personally think abortion is horrible, but aborting babies who are going to enter life with awful disabilities is the least objectionable form of abortion there is. You should be outraged at the millions of perfectly healthy babies that are aborted every year just for convenience. Not this.
- phasnox 6y ago
  >Downs syndrome is a horrible condition that greatly impacts your quality of life. I disagree. Have you ever met one person with that condition? The ones I've met, are happier than 99% of the people I know.
  - smoldesu 6y ago
    Maybe you should tell that to rms instead of throwing anecdata at people who disagree with you.
- DanBC 6y ago
  > Downs syndrome is a horrible condition that greatly impacts your quality of life. People with DS frequently report greater life satisfaction that people without DS. The problem isn't DS, it's how people with DS get treated by the rest of society that's a problem.
smsm42 6y ago
> Stallman has called for the killing of babies with Down Syndrome. I've been in OSS for decades. I've actually argued with RMS personally on certain subject (he called me evil, which I disagree with, but that's not the point). I've read a lot of his writings and a lot of writings about him. I never heard about this until today. I have no idea what RMS actually said on the subject (you didn't provide a quote, as it usually happens) but whatever he said, it's clearly wasn't something very important among all his body of work, if mostly nobody heard or cared about this so far. In fact, I can't bring myself to care about RMS's views on the subject right now - even if your most uncharitable interpretation is completely correct (I am 99% sure it's not, but even in unlikely case it is) it's completely immaterial. RMS has never been and never will be in a position that such an opinion would matter for anything, he has never killed any babies and has never contributed or influenced anything that mattered in this area. He did, however, contributed a lot and mattered a lot in other areas. One of the most idiotic and toxic features of cancel culture is reducing the immense complexity of the person's life to one - almost always distorted and misinterpreted - statement and focusing on it as if it were the only point ever. There's no "someone like that". "Someone like that" is a bullshit - no one is "like that", and "like that" is an insanely awful criteria to guide your actions. Literally everybody has done something in their life some people may not like. One can disagree with somebody on some subject and still agree with them on other subjects. That's how human society works. People can not be reduced to a single "like that", and shouldn't be. Get out of Twitter and purge it out of your system, for the benefit of yourself and humanity.
- DanBC 6y ago
  This is a lot of words to defend someone when you -as you say - don't know what he said nor what he meant. The fact that many people in open source don't care about Stallman's defence of eugenics says a lot.
  - smsm42 6y ago
    > This is a lot of words That's your response? "too long, didn't read"? Well, good job, I guess, here's your participation trophy. > The fact that many people in open source don't care about Stallman's defence of eugenics says a lot. No, it actually says nothing at all. That's the whole point, which you may have understood if you bothered to actually read. RMS's views on random subjects is just idle thoughts of a random dude, and nobody in any community owes anybody any care about what random dude once said about random subjects. If RMS were nominated for the Secretary of Health, then his views on reproductive decisions may be slightly more relevant. Call me back when that happens.
howeyc 6y ago
> On the other hand, Stallman has called for the killing of babies with Down Syndrome. He did not say that. You make it sound like he's suggesting babies actually born should be killed. No. He's supporting the current practice of testing the fetus during pregnancy, and aborting if it has down syndrome. Warning to others, this is what happens when you get caught up in cancel-culture wokeness, repeating allegations of others without verification. You end up repeating falsehoods as justfication, take things out of context, and confirm to onlookers you don't have the ability to form your own opinions through rational, logical thought.
- AnimalMuppet 6y ago
  It's crazier than that. Stallman is being called out by the left/liberals/woke for a pro-choice position. They don't have actual positions they believe in any more. They just have weapons they can use against people.
- phasnox 6y ago
  A "fetus", as you call it, is a person. I'm not calling to cancel him, I just say its hard to support an individual with such despicable thoughts. On the other hand, many of the signers support abortion in general, so it would be hypocritical of me to support them too.
kemonocode 6y ago
> On the other hand, Stallman has called for the killing of babies with Down Syndrome. Would you mind providing a citation on this? Because I have yet to really read about it anywhere else. EDIT: Ah, so it was a rather uncharitable interpretation on his views on abortion [0]. Again, a symptom of someone with zero social awareness and I'm sure it'd be thought to be beyond the pale for some people, but far from a genocidal maniac. [0] https://stallman.org/archives/2016-sep-dec.html#31_October_2016_%28Down%27s_syndrome%29 https://stallman.org/archives/2016-sep-dec.html#31_October_2...
sascha_sl 6y ago
I'm genuinely interested where you draw the line. Politicians (opinion: read that as mostly Republicans) have advocated for heinous things too. Your last point about feeling safe and comfortable working with such people applies especially to minorities that are severely affected by political policies. How is one "political" and the other is not?

CodeGlitch 6y ago

> On the other hand, Stallman has called for the killing of babies with Down Syndrome. Has he though? Has he actioned this idea, or was it just something he blogged about amongst 1000's of other thoughts that floated through his head? One of my life lessons I think is worth pointing out, is that people's actions are far more important than what they say. And this is the problem with modern western society: someone says something stupid and everyone jumps on them as an opportunity to further their own cause. So yes you can associate with someone like this, unless they DO something terrible.

yrrr 6y ago
Advocating for eugenics is doing something terrible. Edit: I don't have an opinion either way, just clarifying that I believe advocacy is action.

deadbytes 6y ago

>calls for the killing of babies if they where jewish, black etc. How is this in any way equivalent? Being jewish or black are not disabilities. Downs syndrome is a horrible condition that greatly impacts your quality of life. I personally think abortion is horrible, but aborting babies who are going to enter life with awful disabilities is the least objectionable form of abortion there is. You should be outraged at the millions of perfectly healthy babies that are aborted every year just for convenience. Not this.

phasnox 6y ago
>Downs syndrome is a horrible condition that greatly impacts your quality of life. I disagree. Have you ever met one person with that condition? The ones I've met, are happier than 99% of the people I know.
- smoldesu 6y ago
  Maybe you should tell that to rms instead of throwing anecdata at people who disagree with you.
DanBC 6y ago
> Downs syndrome is a horrible condition that greatly impacts your quality of life. People with DS frequently report greater life satisfaction that people without DS. The problem isn't DS, it's how people with DS get treated by the rest of society that's a problem.

smsm42 6y ago

> Stallman has called for the killing of babies with Down Syndrome. I've been in OSS for decades. I've actually argued with RMS personally on certain subject (he called me evil, which I disagree with, but that's not the point). I've read a lot of his writings and a lot of writings about him. I never heard about this until today. I have no idea what RMS actually said on the subject (you didn't provide a quote, as it usually happens) but whatever he said, it's clearly wasn't something very important among all his body of work, if mostly nobody heard or cared about this so far. In fact, I can't bring myself to care about RMS's views on the subject right now - even if your most uncharitable interpretation is completely correct (I am 99% sure it's not, but even in unlikely case it is) it's completely immaterial. RMS has never been and never will be in a position that such an opinion would matter for anything, he has never killed any babies and has never contributed or influenced anything that mattered in this area. He did, however, contributed a lot and mattered a lot in other areas. One of the most idiotic and toxic features of cancel culture is reducing the immense complexity of the person's life to one - almost always distorted and misinterpreted - statement and focusing on it as if it were the only point ever. There's no "someone like that". "Someone like that" is a bullshit - no one is "like that", and "like that" is an insanely awful criteria to guide your actions. Literally everybody has done something in their life some people may not like. One can disagree with somebody on some subject and still agree with them on other subjects. That's how human society works. People can not be reduced to a single "like that", and shouldn't be. Get out of Twitter and purge it out of your system, for the benefit of yourself and humanity.

DanBC 6y ago
This is a lot of words to defend someone when you -as you say - don't know what he said nor what he meant. The fact that many people in open source don't care about Stallman's defence of eugenics says a lot.
- smsm42 6y ago
  > This is a lot of words That's your response? "too long, didn't read"? Well, good job, I guess, here's your participation trophy. > The fact that many people in open source don't care about Stallman's defence of eugenics says a lot. No, it actually says nothing at all. That's the whole point, which you may have understood if you bothered to actually read. RMS's views on random subjects is just idle thoughts of a random dude, and nobody in any community owes anybody any care about what random dude once said about random subjects. If RMS were nominated for the Secretary of Health, then his views on reproductive decisions may be slightly more relevant. Call me back when that happens.

howeyc 6y ago

> On the other hand, Stallman has called for the killing of babies with Down Syndrome. He did not say that. You make it sound like he's suggesting babies actually born should be killed. No. He's supporting the current practice of testing the fetus during pregnancy, and aborting if it has down syndrome. Warning to others, this is what happens when you get caught up in cancel-culture wokeness, repeating allegations of others without verification. You end up repeating falsehoods as justfication, take things out of context, and confirm to onlookers you don't have the ability to form your own opinions through rational, logical thought.

AnimalMuppet 6y ago
It's crazier than that. Stallman is being called out by the left/liberals/woke for a pro-choice position. They don't have actual positions they believe in any more. They just have weapons they can use against people.
phasnox 6y ago
A "fetus", as you call it, is a person. I'm not calling to cancel him, I just say its hard to support an individual with such despicable thoughts. On the other hand, many of the signers support abortion in general, so it would be hypocritical of me to support them too.

kemonocode 6y ago

> On the other hand, Stallman has called for the killing of babies with Down Syndrome. Would you mind providing a citation on this? Because I have yet to really read about it anywhere else. EDIT: Ah, so it was a rather uncharitable interpretation on his views on abortion [0]. Again, a symptom of someone with zero social awareness and I'm sure it'd be thought to be beyond the pale for some people, but far from a genocidal maniac. [0] https://stallman.org/archives/2016-sep-dec.html#31_October_2016_%28Down%27s_syndrome%29 https://stallman.org/archives/2016-sep-dec.html#31_October_2...

sascha_sl 6y ago

I'm genuinely interested where you draw the line. Politicians (opinion: read that as mostly Republicans) have advocated for heinous things too. Your last point about feeling safe and comfortable working with such people applies especially to minorities that are severely affected by political policies. How is one "political" and the other is not?