6 ms·

> Would it make sense to move the power delivery stuff to a separate, longer-lived part? That's what your computer's power supply is: A long-lived part that de

> Would it make sense to move the power delivery stuff to a separate, longer-lived part? That's what your computer's power supply is: A long-lived part that delivers bulk 12V power to be regulated down to local voltages on the spot. High performance parts will always need local voltage regulation. The VRMs must be physically close to the chip to provide a low inductance path to serve fast current transients. Moving the VRMs too far away from the chip would compromise the power delivery. Running the power through wires or connector pins is significantly worse than running through broad power planes embedded in the PCB. At these speeds, designers spend a lot of time simulating and analyzing the power delivery network on these PCBs. The power regulation and delivery is fine tuned to support the high speeds required. You can search for "Power Delivery Network Analysis" if you want to learn more.

echlebek 6y ago
This is an awesome comment, thank you! I had long wondered myself why GPU power delivery was so complicated.
- uncledave 6y ago
  Figures you have to look at to be scared about in this space is an RTX 3070 can pull 250 watts and the core is 1.2v (I haven’t confirmed this) then the card can be sucking up an average of 200 amps. Which is a lot. Peak currents can be a lot more than that too.
  - therein 6y ago
    That's a crazy amount of current to pull. I have melted wires or even welded things together with a super-capacitor setup delivering a similar amount.
    - rjbwork 6y ago
      My 3090 tops out at 400W on a not even very aggressive overclock. And it makes my room HOT when it's pegged. These graphics chips are insanely power hungry and beefy as hell these days.
dkersten 6y ago
That reminds me of some hardware teardowns (eg of the new consoles, latest graphics cards and such) where they show how the VRM's are scattered around to balance what they serve as equally as possible (to keep heat spread out?) while still being as close as possible to what they provide power to. Its quite interesting!
baybal2 6y ago
A100 uses such "single part" power supply sitting right next to the package. I believe such chips can be easily unsoldered relatively easily, and reused. And by the way, refurbished, and recycles parts, and even passives ARE a thing, it's just the part of the industry you never see in manufacturing of goods going to first world countries, but in China you can buy 2nd hand electronics components quite easily.
MarkSweep 6y ago
As an example of a PC power supply doing things slightly differently, the Lenovo P620 has a power supply that connects to the motherboard with a slot connector. I heard that it only supplies one voltage and the rest of the voltages are generated on the board, but I can’t find a reference for that. https://www.anandtech.com/show/16482/lenovo-thinkstation-p620-review-a-vehicle-for-threadripper-pro/2 https://www.anandtech.com/show/16482/lenovo-thinkstation-p62...
- bellyfullofbac 6y ago
  Intel is introducing a new standard where the PSU just supplies 12V: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=heyGtgdfN7A&vl=en https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=heyGtgdfN7A&vl=en , but it still has cables. The Lenovo design is neat but it would mean the placement of the PSU relative to the motherboard is unchangeable..

echlebek 6y ago

This is an awesome comment, thank you! I had long wondered myself why GPU power delivery was so complicated.

uncledave 6y ago
Figures you have to look at to be scared about in this space is an RTX 3070 can pull 250 watts and the core is 1.2v (I haven’t confirmed this) then the card can be sucking up an average of 200 amps. Which is a lot. Peak currents can be a lot more than that too.
- therein 6y ago
  That's a crazy amount of current to pull. I have melted wires or even welded things together with a super-capacitor setup delivering a similar amount.
  - rjbwork 6y ago
    My 3090 tops out at 400W on a not even very aggressive overclock. And it makes my room HOT when it's pegged. These graphics chips are insanely power hungry and beefy as hell these days.

dkersten 6y ago

That reminds me of some hardware teardowns (eg of the new consoles, latest graphics cards and such) where they show how the VRM's are scattered around to balance what they serve as equally as possible (to keep heat spread out?) while still being as close as possible to what they provide power to. Its quite interesting!

baybal2 6y ago

A100 uses such "single part" power supply sitting right next to the package. I believe such chips can be easily unsoldered relatively easily, and reused. And by the way, refurbished, and recycles parts, and even passives ARE a thing, it's just the part of the industry you never see in manufacturing of goods going to first world countries, but in China you can buy 2nd hand electronics components quite easily.

MarkSweep 6y ago

As an example of a PC power supply doing things slightly differently, the Lenovo P620 has a power supply that connects to the motherboard with a slot connector. I heard that it only supplies one voltage and the rest of the voltages are generated on the board, but I can’t find a reference for that. https://www.anandtech.com/show/16482/lenovo-thinkstation-p620-review-a-vehicle-for-threadripper-pro/2 https://www.anandtech.com/show/16482/lenovo-thinkstation-p62...

bellyfullofbac 6y ago
Intel is introducing a new standard where the PSU just supplies 12V: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=heyGtgdfN7A&vl=en https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=heyGtgdfN7A&vl=en , but it still has cables. The Lenovo design is neat but it would mean the placement of the PSU relative to the motherboard is unchangeable..