I think much of the reason that these kinds of discussions are chaotic is that we are so unaccustomed to thinking about what formal principles and tools that se

I think much of the reason that these kinds of discussions are chaotic is that we are so unaccustomed to thinking about what formal principles and tools that self-governed communities might decide to use. In the case of reddit, there is a tension between Reddit the company and it's use of the top-down power it has, and Reddit the admin community, and the general user community.