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It seems like this comment is based on either an incorrect image of how this conversation ought to go, or a problematic prior about how inclined one's neighbor

It seems like this comment is based on either an incorrect image of how this conversation ought to go, or a problematic prior about how inclined one's neighbor might be to violent retaliation. In most cases, I'd suggest mitigating this risk through your style of interaction, not your initial choice about how to interact at all. GP was just suggesting a normal human interaction. If "retaliation" is a risk after your initial overture to a neighbor, you have done it very wrong.

xapata 6y ago
Maybe a bad prior, but one that arose from personal experience. If you haven't had to spend the night wondering whether your neighbor was going to barge in and murder you, waiting for the moving truck to arrive in the morning ... Well, I suppose you might not share my priors. On the other hand, I'm not sure what could have been done to prevent it. My neighbor's list of grievances was largely imaginary. His tales of how he wanted to kill his pets seemed earnest enough to make his personal threats equally disturbing.
treis 6y ago
The asshole blaring music and doing burnouts is very unlikely to respond positively to a suggestion they stop doing that. If they were reasonable people and considerate of others they wouldn't be doing that in the first place. I suspect that if you polled the long term residents of the area they would have similar negative perceptions of the car club. It's just that they don't have the power to effect change or don't have the attitude that they can effect change.
- dionidium 6y ago
  > If they were reasonable people and considerate of others they wouldn't be doing that in the first place. Respectfully, you're probably giving yourself too much credit here (and your neighbors not enough). It's almost certainly the case that you (and me and everybody else reading this) has done something that annoyed a neighbor. You either just didn't realize it or you were tired or stressed and slipped up. But the odds are exceedingly good for any of us that we've had our music too loud, or our stomping was bothering the people downstairs, or we parked somewhere that annoyed somebody else. If you'd react reasonably when called out for any of these behaviors, then give your fellow man the benefit of that doubt.
  - xapata 6y ago
    Again, it's not a question of what the most likely reaction is, but how grave the worst reaction would be. You hold at least one insurance policy? If so, you understand the rationale in at least one domain.
    - dionidium 6y ago
      This doesn't actually make sense. Of course it matters how likely the outcome is. We all routinely engage in behaviors for which the worst possible outcome is certain death and we do so because that outcome is rare enough that the benefits outweigh the risk.[0] The base rate matters a lot. [0] Many of these activities, like, say, driving a car, are probably orders of magnitude more dangerous than, ahem, talking to your neighbor.
      - xapata 6y ago
        Perhaps I should have said it more carefully. One should care about the distribution of outcomes and their magnitudes along multiple axes of impact, plus potential mitigation options. All this leads me to conclude that sometimes calling the police is the right thing to do, even if the likelihood of retaliation is low.
- fatnoah 6y ago
  >The asshole blaring music and doing burnouts is very unlikely to respond positively to a suggestion they stop doing that. If they were reasonable people and considerate of others they wouldn't be doing that in the first place. You'd be surprised just how oblivious people are. I lived in an apartment building where a fire escape connected my bedroom window to another window that faced min about 7 feet away. People in that apartment would have parties featuring folks hanging out on the fire escape a few feet from my head and keep me awake. I finally opened the window and said very nicely, "hey guys, any chance you could move inside? I have to catch a bus to work at 7am tomorrow morning?" They were completely shocked that they were even bothering someone else. I never had a problem after that and the party stayed indoors. Not everyone will respond so well, but a surprising number of people don't realize that they're bothering others.
  - treis 6y ago
    Yeah but these people are going through great effort and expense to be annoying. They're not likely to change. And indeed, TFA shows that they're well aware of the problem and have no plans to change.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
SilasX 6y ago
And I think this comment is based on never having encountered a toxic neighbor yourself, and underestimating the significance of a single bad apple.

xapata 6y ago

Maybe a bad prior, but one that arose from personal experience. If you haven't had to spend the night wondering whether your neighbor was going to barge in and murder you, waiting for the moving truck to arrive in the morning ... Well, I suppose you might not share my priors. On the other hand, I'm not sure what could have been done to prevent it. My neighbor's list of grievances was largely imaginary. His tales of how he wanted to kill his pets seemed earnest enough to make his personal threats equally disturbing.

treis 6y ago

The asshole blaring music and doing burnouts is very unlikely to respond positively to a suggestion they stop doing that. If they were reasonable people and considerate of others they wouldn't be doing that in the first place. I suspect that if you polled the long term residents of the area they would have similar negative perceptions of the car club. It's just that they don't have the power to effect change or don't have the attitude that they can effect change.

dionidium 6y ago
> If they were reasonable people and considerate of others they wouldn't be doing that in the first place. Respectfully, you're probably giving yourself too much credit here (and your neighbors not enough). It's almost certainly the case that you (and me and everybody else reading this) has done something that annoyed a neighbor. You either just didn't realize it or you were tired or stressed and slipped up. But the odds are exceedingly good for any of us that we've had our music too loud, or our stomping was bothering the people downstairs, or we parked somewhere that annoyed somebody else. If you'd react reasonably when called out for any of these behaviors, then give your fellow man the benefit of that doubt.
- xapata 6y ago
  Again, it's not a question of what the most likely reaction is, but how grave the worst reaction would be. You hold at least one insurance policy? If so, you understand the rationale in at least one domain.
  - dionidium 6y ago
    This doesn't actually make sense. Of course it matters how likely the outcome is. We all routinely engage in behaviors for which the worst possible outcome is certain death and we do so because that outcome is rare enough that the benefits outweigh the risk.[0] The base rate matters a lot. [0] Many of these activities, like, say, driving a car, are probably orders of magnitude more dangerous than, ahem, talking to your neighbor.
    - xapata 6y ago
      Perhaps I should have said it more carefully. One should care about the distribution of outcomes and their magnitudes along multiple axes of impact, plus potential mitigation options. All this leads me to conclude that sometimes calling the police is the right thing to do, even if the likelihood of retaliation is low.
fatnoah 6y ago
>The asshole blaring music and doing burnouts is very unlikely to respond positively to a suggestion they stop doing that. If they were reasonable people and considerate of others they wouldn't be doing that in the first place. You'd be surprised just how oblivious people are. I lived in an apartment building where a fire escape connected my bedroom window to another window that faced min about 7 feet away. People in that apartment would have parties featuring folks hanging out on the fire escape a few feet from my head and keep me awake. I finally opened the window and said very nicely, "hey guys, any chance you could move inside? I have to catch a bus to work at 7am tomorrow morning?" They were completely shocked that they were even bothering someone else. I never had a problem after that and the party stayed indoors. Not everyone will respond so well, but a surprising number of people don't realize that they're bothering others.
- treis 6y ago
  Yeah but these people are going through great effort and expense to be annoying. They're not likely to change. And indeed, TFA shows that they're well aware of the problem and have no plans to change.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

SilasX 6y ago

And I think this comment is based on never having encountered a toxic neighbor yourself, and underestimating the significance of a single bad apple.