6 ms·

> From the beginning it was a balanced yin/yang relationship between a maker of musical tools and the artists who used those tools. It doesn't seem to work that

> From the beginning it was a balanced yin/yang relationship between a maker of musical tools and the artists who used those tools. It doesn't seem to work that way much anymore, and more's the pity. A place where I think this still happens is Darkglass and Neural DSP where Doug Castro leads teams that create great musical products in collaboration with artists. They just released the Quad Cortex digital guitar effects pedal/platform which is getting high praise. (Anxiously awaited I just got mine as part of a the first batch of a preorder). https://neuraldsp.com/ https://neuraldsp.com/

52-6F-62 6y ago
It definitely still happens in the acoustic world, but much like the audio software world there's more noise to signal than there was in the past. Advanced instrument makers tend to work closely with artists, while there's a much larger market for cheaper, utility builds than ever. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. To me it says the impact of music has only grown and I don't think we've began to scratch the surface of understanding of what it really communicates and does for people, and how it does it (stop me before I get metaphysical). The increasingly wide reach and accessibility of the craft with a select of standout talents to me says renaissance.
- jolux 6y ago
  >Advanced instrument makers tend to work closely with artists, while there's a much larger market for cheaper, utility builds than ever. It's just a function of many instruments becoming commoditized, which is overall a good thing. I bought a new electric guitar for under $200 last year and it played great out of the box. That didn't used to be possible.
  - 52-6F-62 6y ago
    For sure! I learned on something my parents ordered from Sears for $100. I think they still have it. Some of the parts look like they were composed of boxwood or balsa, and even cardboard. It was horrible and I would play until my fingers would bleed, then quit for the day. I learned to play on that for years. It made learning a battle, not just a challenge. It's another league entirely these days. I would argue to the bitter end about instrument construction and argue that "good" instruments are indeed better than the commoditized versions of the same, but for people starting out and coming up and even recording they're fine tools! Memorable is Mike Campbell absolutely tearing it up on an Epiphone Florida Gators LP special AKA a cheap novelty guitar (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e25p0Y3Vd38 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e25p0Y3Vd38). But I to explain my original point further: It's not as simple as just being a function of the commoditization. That is undeniably what's happening, but the why is, at the root, a demand that didn't previously exist, and not just for novelty or aesthetic but playability. The need for playability and a pleasing sound follows adoption, and widespread adoption is what I think signifies renaissance. There are more capable musicians than ever, and even through the noise there are more capable productions than ever, in all manner of genres and tuned to all manner of tastes. Similar to how printing brought music to the wider public and a generally supportive environment for the arts during the period of the (capital R) Renaissance.
terramex 6y ago
It still happens even in 'classic' synthesiser industry. Aphex Twin did a collaboration with Korg few years ago, he was providing feedback to them and created some excellent product demos like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUT01p-C2xo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUT01p-C2xo He also had input into Novation Bass Station II: https://novationmusic.com/en/news/bass-station-firmware-v414 https://novationmusic.com/en/news/bass-station-firmware-v414 AFX Mode Electronic music legend Richard James, aka Aphex Twin, has already played an instrumental part in the Bass Station II story, having provided guidance for the implementation of the micro-tuning added with Firmware v2.5. His conceptual contribution to v4.14 is even more profound, however. Letting his imagination run riot, Richard envisioned the decidedly radical notion of having a discrete set of synthesis parameters assigned to each note of Bass Station II, either variations on a ‘seed’ patch, or disparate sounds designed to constitute a chimeric whole. Although this sort of thing could already be kludged using very fast program change messages, having multiple sounds active at the same time would clearly be a far more creative and efficient system. AFX Mode is the realisation of James’ out-there concept. Put simply, it lets you modify your Bass Station II patch on a key-by-key basis. Use it to introduce subtle changes to a sound as you play up and down the keyboard; divide the keyboard into multiple zones (one per key if you like!), each playing its own sound; or create entire drum kits in a single preset for triggering manually or via the Arpeggiator. It’s a truly inspiring feature that really does open up a whole new world of sound design and performance possibilities.
- weatherlight 6y ago
  They even rereleased the bass station 2: https://novationmusic.com/en/synths/afx-station https://novationmusic.com/en/synths/afx-station the thing to remember is that this was written before 2005, that might have been the state of teh world then.
Mizza 6y ago
Steve Duda worked with Deadmau5 to come up with Serum, which is probably the most popular synth VST (and I think previously he was a sound designer for Trent Reznor).
- mhh__ 6y ago
  Steve Duda is also really sharp in his own right. He doesn't seem to properly publish a lot of his work but some of it is eerily crisp considering it's decade old. He also wrote one of the first samplers people use ableton for IIRC
oilbagz 6y ago
Look no further than Zynthian for another example of a balanced relationship: http://zynthian.com http://zynthian.com Seems like FOSS is more resilient to the effect that Wendy noted has, almost, made a farce of the synth market.
- mxmilkb 6y ago
  Also https://moddevices.com https://moddevices.com
  - wdfx 6y ago
    Or build your own around an RPi 4 https://bitbucket.org/doughammond/guitarix-foot-remote/src/master/ https://bitbucket.org/doughammond/guitarix-foot-remote/src/m...
    - mxmilkiib 6y ago
      For sure, though the topic ITT is the "relationship between a maker of musical tools and the artists who used those tools". I give the example of MOD particularly in this case because falkTX* not only works for MOD but helps develop JACK (and DPF, Carla, KX.Studio, etc.). For another DIY solution that uses mod-host, what the MOD and Zynthian devices use for LV2; https://github.com/auto3000/pedalpii https://github.com/auto3000/pedalpii / https://github.com/auto3000/meta-pedalpi https://github.com/auto3000/meta-pedalpi / https://github.com/Rezzonics/pedalC2-dev-platform https://github.com/Rezzonics/pedalC2-dev-platform * https://github.com/falkTX https://github.com/falkTX
      - oilbagz 6y ago
        I think its quite appropriate to be discussing these projects, given that: a) they are AMAZING (Zynthian is truly an extraordinary project - as is MOD, which is included in the zynthian distro incidentally) and, b) these projects are available for you to put on your own hardware .. which is an ideology which runs counter to almost every other hardware manufacturer today, operating in the synth business .. It should be noted, also, that this open attitude and sharing/caring is what good musicians do. Music is one of those realms where the maxim 'information wants to be free' is true, with every single note.
numlocked 6y ago
Perhaps with Teenage Engineering as well? https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/25/magazine/electronic-music-synthesizers.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/25/magazine/electronic-music...
Mediterraneo10 6y ago
It has happened at IRCAM, too, where composers and technicians work together. The technician helps explain to the composer what electronics are available off the shelf, the composer drives the technician to invent new technologies to create what the composer can hear in his or her head.
IAmPym 6y ago
And it absolutely still happens at Sequential (where I work), speaking as an engineer who is also a musician and works very closely with artists to hear what they want and build tools that they get super inspired by. I couldn't imagine building what we build without the close artist engagements that we focus on. Every single person at our company is a musician, which I've found out is not commonplace in our industry.
- colanderman 6y ago
  Hey! It absolutely shows in your products. Very happy Pro 3 owner; it is a joy to play, the sound and controls are always inspiring. A true musical instrument.

52-6F-62 6y ago

It definitely still happens in the acoustic world, but much like the audio software world there's more noise to signal than there was in the past. Advanced instrument makers tend to work closely with artists, while there's a much larger market for cheaper, utility builds than ever. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. To me it says the impact of music has only grown and I don't think we've began to scratch the surface of understanding of what it really communicates and does for people, and how it does it (stop me before I get metaphysical). The increasingly wide reach and accessibility of the craft with a select of standout talents to me says renaissance.

jolux 6y ago
>Advanced instrument makers tend to work closely with artists, while there's a much larger market for cheaper, utility builds than ever. It's just a function of many instruments becoming commoditized, which is overall a good thing. I bought a new electric guitar for under $200 last year and it played great out of the box. That didn't used to be possible.
- 52-6F-62 6y ago
  For sure! I learned on something my parents ordered from Sears for $100. I think they still have it. Some of the parts look like they were composed of boxwood or balsa, and even cardboard. It was horrible and I would play until my fingers would bleed, then quit for the day. I learned to play on that for years. It made learning a battle, not just a challenge. It's another league entirely these days. I would argue to the bitter end about instrument construction and argue that "good" instruments are indeed better than the commoditized versions of the same, but for people starting out and coming up and even recording they're fine tools! Memorable is Mike Campbell absolutely tearing it up on an Epiphone Florida Gators LP special AKA a cheap novelty guitar (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e25p0Y3Vd38 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e25p0Y3Vd38). But I to explain my original point further: It's not as simple as just being a function of the commoditization. That is undeniably what's happening, but the why is, at the root, a demand that didn't previously exist, and not just for novelty or aesthetic but playability. The need for playability and a pleasing sound follows adoption, and widespread adoption is what I think signifies renaissance. There are more capable musicians than ever, and even through the noise there are more capable productions than ever, in all manner of genres and tuned to all manner of tastes. Similar to how printing brought music to the wider public and a generally supportive environment for the arts during the period of the (capital R) Renaissance.

terramex 6y ago

It still happens even in 'classic' synthesiser industry. Aphex Twin did a collaboration with Korg few years ago, he was providing feedback to them and created some excellent product demos like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUT01p-C2xo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUT01p-C2xo He also had input into Novation Bass Station II: https://novationmusic.com/en/news/bass-station-firmware-v414 https://novationmusic.com/en/news/bass-station-firmware-v414 AFX Mode Electronic music legend Richard James, aka Aphex Twin, has already played an instrumental part in the Bass Station II story, having provided guidance for the implementation of the micro-tuning added with Firmware v2.5. His conceptual contribution to v4.14 is even more profound, however. Letting his imagination run riot, Richard envisioned the decidedly radical notion of having a discrete set of synthesis parameters assigned to each note of Bass Station II, either variations on a ‘seed’ patch, or disparate sounds designed to constitute a chimeric whole. Although this sort of thing could already be kludged using very fast program change messages, having multiple sounds active at the same time would clearly be a far more creative and efficient system. AFX Mode is the realisation of James’ out-there concept. Put simply, it lets you modify your Bass Station II patch on a key-by-key basis. Use it to introduce subtle changes to a sound as you play up and down the keyboard; divide the keyboard into multiple zones (one per key if you like!), each playing its own sound; or create entire drum kits in a single preset for triggering manually or via the Arpeggiator. It’s a truly inspiring feature that really does open up a whole new world of sound design and performance possibilities.

weatherlight 6y ago
They even rereleased the bass station 2: https://novationmusic.com/en/synths/afx-station https://novationmusic.com/en/synths/afx-station the thing to remember is that this was written before 2005, that might have been the state of teh world then.

Mizza 6y ago

Steve Duda worked with Deadmau5 to come up with Serum, which is probably the most popular synth VST (and I think previously he was a sound designer for Trent Reznor).

mhh__ 6y ago
Steve Duda is also really sharp in his own right. He doesn't seem to properly publish a lot of his work but some of it is eerily crisp considering it's decade old. He also wrote one of the first samplers people use ableton for IIRC

oilbagz 6y ago

Look no further than Zynthian for another example of a balanced relationship: http://zynthian.com http://zynthian.com Seems like FOSS is more resilient to the effect that Wendy noted has, almost, made a farce of the synth market.

mxmilkb 6y ago
Also https://moddevices.com https://moddevices.com
- wdfx 6y ago
  Or build your own around an RPi 4 https://bitbucket.org/doughammond/guitarix-foot-remote/src/master/ https://bitbucket.org/doughammond/guitarix-foot-remote/src/m...
  - mxmilkiib 6y ago
    For sure, though the topic ITT is the "relationship between a maker of musical tools and the artists who used those tools". I give the example of MOD particularly in this case because falkTX* not only works for MOD but helps develop JACK (and DPF, Carla, KX.Studio, etc.). For another DIY solution that uses mod-host, what the MOD and Zynthian devices use for LV2; https://github.com/auto3000/pedalpii https://github.com/auto3000/pedalpii / https://github.com/auto3000/meta-pedalpi https://github.com/auto3000/meta-pedalpi / https://github.com/Rezzonics/pedalC2-dev-platform https://github.com/Rezzonics/pedalC2-dev-platform * https://github.com/falkTX https://github.com/falkTX
    - oilbagz 6y ago
      I think its quite appropriate to be discussing these projects, given that: a) they are AMAZING (Zynthian is truly an extraordinary project - as is MOD, which is included in the zynthian distro incidentally) and, b) these projects are available for you to put on your own hardware .. which is an ideology which runs counter to almost every other hardware manufacturer today, operating in the synth business .. It should be noted, also, that this open attitude and sharing/caring is what good musicians do. Music is one of those realms where the maxim 'information wants to be free' is true, with every single note.

numlocked 6y ago

Perhaps with Teenage Engineering as well? https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/25/magazine/electronic-music-synthesizers.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/25/magazine/electronic-music...

Mediterraneo10 6y ago

It has happened at IRCAM, too, where composers and technicians work together. The technician helps explain to the composer what electronics are available off the shelf, the composer drives the technician to invent new technologies to create what the composer can hear in his or her head.

IAmPym 6y ago

And it absolutely still happens at Sequential (where I work), speaking as an engineer who is also a musician and works very closely with artists to hear what they want and build tools that they get super inspired by. I couldn't imagine building what we build without the close artist engagements that we focus on. Every single person at our company is a musician, which I've found out is not commonplace in our industry.

colanderman 6y ago
Hey! It absolutely shows in your products. Very happy Pro 3 owner; it is a joy to play, the sound and controls are always inspiring. A true musical instrument.