6 ms·

I wonder if they got burned by Perl 6/Raku. That had tons of new features but took so long to deliver that it became a burden. Anyway, I think you're right: the

by dash2 6y ago

I wonder if they got burned by Perl 6/Raku. That had tons of new features but took so long to deliver that it became a burden. Anyway, I think you're right: they have to be more proactive than just going for "feature parity with a modern language".

yabadubakta 6y ago
I recommend going to https://raku.org/ https://raku.org/ and reading up on the language because Raku actually has features “modern languages” do not. E.G. the grammars.
thatwasunusual 6y ago
> I wonder if they got burned by Perl 6/Raku. I have the same feeling. I've been programming Perl since mid 90s, and I was - as many others - hyped when Perl 6 was announced early 2000s. 20 years later, it's just different programming language in my eyes; I won't spend any time on it, because if I need Perl, Perl 5.x will do just fine. Unfortunately, because of Perl 6/Parrot/Raku, or what the current name is, I think it made many developers get off the Perl train. There are lots of good frameworks for Perl that makes it super-easy to get something up and running really quickly; * Mojolicious (and its multitude of plugins, Minion etc.) * DBIx::Class (not pretty, but still just works) * Moose/Mouse (for decent OOP) * JSON::Validator (and friends, for mocking and validating) The list goes on, but this is the "out of the box"-stuff for me to get up and running with something, if not just a prototype of something.
- Macha 6y ago
  Wasn't Perl 6 itself a reaction to the fact that a lot of developers already leaving for PHP in the web space and Python in the "I need something like a shell script, but need/want a real programming language".
  - thatwasunusual 6y ago
    I honestly don't remember. Nor do I care anymore. :)
  - bmn__ 6y ago
    No. http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/happy-10th-anniversary-perl-6 http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/happy-10th-anniversary-p...
    - raiph 6y ago
      As Jon Orwant (supposedly) said in 2000 (quoting from the article you linked): > we are fucked unless we can come up with something that will excite the community, because everyone's getting bored and going off and doing other things
sigzero 6y ago
There is no "wonder". They did.
G3rn0ti 6y ago
Yeah, Perl 6 created a lot of confusion especially inside the Perl 5 community. But, in the end, they figured it all out: Perl 5 lives on and Perl 6 got out of its way by renaming itself to Raku. And, for the record: Raku itself is a gem of a language, I believe. A pretty solid OO system, optional typing, powerful language constructs, stellar Unicode support and somehow it is still staying true to Perl's rather pragmatic and, if I may say so, libertarian approach to software developing. I personally love raku's "grammars" most because they render writing parsers a routine job, it's amazing and no other programming language provides such a feature. If you're interested I strongly suggest you to check out Brian D Foy's book on Raku: https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/learning-perl-6/9781491977675 https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/learning-perl-6/9781491....
- vram22 6y ago
  How about the reported Perl6 / Raku speed issues? Saying "reported" because I have not done an in-depth study if they exist, just read about it briefly somewhere (and a while ago, may a year or so). If they did/do exist, was/is anything being done about them? Asking because I, for one, found both Perl 5 and 6 interesting, and the language features of both, somewhat unusual and powerful.
  - G3rn0ti 6y ago
    I think Raku is still quite a bit slower. But I am not up-to-date with the latest state. However, this is "just" a matter of optimization of the interpreter over time. It's just that Perl 5's interpreter had a head start of more than 25 years.
    - vram22 6y ago
      Yes, that is possible. Java was dead slow early on (I first used it soon after it came out, and pioneered use of servlets in my company at the time), but after Sun's management threw millions of dollars and high-end tech people at the problem, it got fast enough for many uses in a few years, what with the Hotspot VM and JIT tech and so on.
Stranger43 6y ago
I don't remember anyone paying much attention to perl6 before long after perl had peaked. It was for a while seen as an potential savior for perl but that faded too. It was more about PHP, Ruby and Python entering the stage and diluting the market for scripting languages by each offering something special that one set of users really wanted weather it be an easier deployment path better standard libraries or a more beginner friendly community.

by dash2 6y ago

yabadubakta 6y ago

I recommend going to https://raku.org/ https://raku.org/ and reading up on the language because Raku actually has features “modern languages” do not. E.G. the grammars.

thatwasunusual 6y ago

> I wonder if they got burned by Perl 6/Raku. I have the same feeling. I've been programming Perl since mid 90s, and I was - as many others - hyped when Perl 6 was announced early 2000s. 20 years later, it's just different programming language in my eyes; I won't spend any time on it, because if I need Perl, Perl 5.x will do just fine. Unfortunately, because of Perl 6/Parrot/Raku, or what the current name is, I think it made many developers get off the Perl train. There are lots of good frameworks for Perl that makes it super-easy to get something up and running really quickly; * Mojolicious (and its multitude of plugins, Minion etc.) * DBIx::Class (not pretty, but still just works) * Moose/Mouse (for decent OOP) * JSON::Validator (and friends, for mocking and validating) The list goes on, but this is the "out of the box"-stuff for me to get up and running with something, if not just a prototype of something.

Macha 6y ago
Wasn't Perl 6 itself a reaction to the fact that a lot of developers already leaving for PHP in the web space and Python in the "I need something like a shell script, but need/want a real programming language".
- thatwasunusual 6y ago
  I honestly don't remember. Nor do I care anymore. :)
- bmn__ 6y ago
  No. http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/happy-10th-anniversary-perl-6 http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/happy-10th-anniversary-p...
  - raiph 6y ago
    As Jon Orwant (supposedly) said in 2000 (quoting from the article you linked): > we are fucked unless we can come up with something that will excite the community, because everyone's getting bored and going off and doing other things

sigzero 6y ago

There is no "wonder". They did.

G3rn0ti 6y ago

Yeah, Perl 6 created a lot of confusion especially inside the Perl 5 community. But, in the end, they figured it all out: Perl 5 lives on and Perl 6 got out of its way by renaming itself to Raku. And, for the record: Raku itself is a gem of a language, I believe. A pretty solid OO system, optional typing, powerful language constructs, stellar Unicode support and somehow it is still staying true to Perl's rather pragmatic and, if I may say so, libertarian approach to software developing. I personally love raku's "grammars" most because they render writing parsers a routine job, it's amazing and no other programming language provides such a feature. If you're interested I strongly suggest you to check out Brian D Foy's book on Raku: https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/learning-perl-6/9781491977675 https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/learning-perl-6/9781491....

vram22 6y ago
How about the reported Perl6 / Raku speed issues? Saying "reported" because I have not done an in-depth study if they exist, just read about it briefly somewhere (and a while ago, may a year or so). If they did/do exist, was/is anything being done about them? Asking because I, for one, found both Perl 5 and 6 interesting, and the language features of both, somewhat unusual and powerful.
- G3rn0ti 6y ago
  I think Raku is still quite a bit slower. But I am not up-to-date with the latest state. However, this is "just" a matter of optimization of the interpreter over time. It's just that Perl 5's interpreter had a head start of more than 25 years.
  - vram22 6y ago
    Yes, that is possible. Java was dead slow early on (I first used it soon after it came out, and pioneered use of servlets in my company at the time), but after Sun's management threw millions of dollars and high-end tech people at the problem, it got fast enough for many uses in a few years, what with the Hotspot VM and JIT tech and so on.

Stranger43 6y ago

I don't remember anyone paying much attention to perl6 before long after perl had peaked. It was for a while seen as an potential savior for perl but that faded too. It was more about PHP, Ruby and Python entering the stage and diluting the market for scripting languages by each offering something special that one set of users really wanted weather it be an easier deployment path better standard libraries or a more beginner friendly community.