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Lots of Wumaos on this kind of threads. I've seen those talking points spammed here and on other forums; also the way you write is also a big give away. > This

Lots of Wumaos on this kind of threads. I've seen those talking points spammed here and on other forums; also the way you write is also a big give away. > This is how China went from having poor academic research capacity into leading research many fields relatively fast if one looks past the "culture" / incidental inefficiencies and evaluate based on metrics controlled for quality. Supercharge this with industrial policy and state coordination to target strategic sectors. I'm sorry but this makes no sense. When using existing research and literature, even one wrong article can screw over a whole project. Chinese academic research is viewed with high skepticism to say the least, and often laughed at when cited as credible. Chabuduo has no place in science. There's a good reason they rely heavily on stealing research and technology even to this day; because they don't even trust their own researcher. > It's the optimal development strategy that plays to PRC strengths - lots of people, somewhat competent ability to coordinate. In terms of fast, cheap, good, developing countries don't get to be good anyway, frequently poor governance = can't even focus on fast or cheap let alone both. Coordinating both = Deng model: poor China develops cheap and fast aka chabuduo. So Chinese population + spamming chabuduo + coordination = enough occasional, actually good outcomes to reach global competitiveness in ways that matter, fast. China's growth was helped mainly by huge positive trade deficits caused by protectionist policies and the huge active commercial help of foreign country who tolerated said protectionism (until now) and complete disregard for long term consequences. Sure, focus your population on work instead of raising children, disregard regulations so you have an economy based on tofu buildings and rotting ghost cities and basically no social programs to take care of your elderly population facing a demographic catastrophe and screw over nearly all countries who dealt with you in good faith so they all have active programs to migrate their production out of your country. > Building premier institutions is also just hard and takes time to cultivate, especially if intellectuals previously purged, so need to spam out all the necessary components first anyway. Can't exactly have leading institutions without pool of experts first. The only place to cut corners for building institutions is to generate excess talent/components and assemble accordingly. Excess talent also necessary to mitigate brain drain (your amazing colleagues). Nah the Chinese just outsourced that with industrial espionage. > Elsewhere, Chabuduo manufacturing with Chinese population means plastic hangers to iPhones in 10 years. Chabuduo construction means enviable transportation systems, tier1 cities from fishing villages, and ghost cities that eventually gets filled by the hundreds of millions still waiting to be urbanized. Perfect/Good is the enemy of fast development. Your cities are polluted, your cancer and chronic disease rates are through the roof, your factories have anti-suicide nets, you have to spy on your population so they don't rebel... I mean what's the fucking benefit? Sure iPhones 16 are cheap, but also mostly unnecessary and could be / is being outsourced elsewhere (China is facing a chip shortage by the way, again screwing over other countries wasn't such a good long term strategy was it?) Your Chabuduo constructions are crumbling. Your government has to actively supress news of buildings collapsing, elsewhere this would make national news. And no your ghost cities are not being settled "by the hundreds of millions" (lol, hundred of millions, that's like the number of people having to hunt rats and do subsistence farming to survive and I wish I was kidding). "Good enough" means you can sustain your future, but cheap stuff that breaks from toys to academic papers always end up costing more.

dirtyid 6y ago
> talking points spammed My talking points are mostly from subject matter experts with good track record. Yours is generic youtube wisdom from ADVChina and laoway86. > makes no sense. Tell that to various international global rankings in innovation / research indexes that controls for quality and impact factors. China starting to lead in many strategic high tech fields. High impact research doesn't seem to have a problem citing Chinese papers. Espionage built the base and fills in gaps. Combine with domestic research = rapidly propelling Chinese RD competitiveness. Whine all you like, strategy is working and reflected in reality. Not to mention industrial policy is modelled after west, China likes to copy what works after all, it just learned to play the same game well. > China's growth was helped mainly Yet it grew to 2nd largest economy, 1st by PPP measures. Model worked in China but not India who had better starting conditions. China had exceptionally onerous WTO accession protocols, sanctions and other geopolitical hindrances. Ultimately it's about playing cards that are dealt, which were much less charitable than your fantasies. CCP just managed cards competently and continues to, seeing how FDI is up, minimum amount of foreign companies are moving out despite cold war, Chinese companies expanding abroad, trade deals being signed, further entangling more economies to Chinese supply chains. Demographic crisis overblown, China's a medium income country with plenty of room to grow, enough cheap surplus labour to maintain infrastructure and negotiate demographic transition. Meanwhile western infrastructure actually rotting, living standards are declining. See which countries are actually losing shit over economic anxiety, fracturing over immigration to maintain unsustainable safety nets and coping with rants like yours. China isn't a developed country, it's not going to deal with developing country problems based on poor projection. Poor Chinese are going to die poor, but still richer than they were. That's an arguable easy crisis to deal with than pervasive decline in QOL in west. > outsourced that with industrial espionage Again refer to steady upward trend of Chinese academic institutions. China only middle-income country to break top rank. Mid-ranking universities have converged and started to outperform mid-ranking western institutions. It's just getting started. > what's the fucking benefit Just 40x increase in economy since 90s and massive aggregate QoL improvements I guess. Maybe also triggering folks like you. Hundred millions = urbanization rate from 60% -> 70% by 2025... then onto 80%. That's 300M people... Remind me how much surplus units there are? Obviously some waste, but broadly oversupply was planned as part of general urbanization strategy trying to get rid of subsistent farmers kept around for stability maintenance. > always end up costing more Said every China collapse proponents every year for the past 30 years, yet somehow China is now a viable strategic competitor to US. > Chabuduo constructions are crumbling Actually worked in construction field in China / West. Residential developments in North America failing as much as ones I've worked on in China. Except China builds it cheaper and faster. BTW most of South Korea has shitty construction quality due to rapid development. It's been decades, unsurprisingly not actually an existential problem. Not to mention the amount of seemingly unworkable starchitect designs in tier1/2 cities that are doing fine. Hint: construction isn't rocket science. Some accidents as result of building more than the world combined or US in last 100 years is negligible. I'll take that over NIMBYism stagnant infrastructure/development any day.

dirtyid 6y ago

> talking points spammed My talking points are mostly from subject matter experts with good track record. Yours is generic youtube wisdom from ADVChina and laoway86. > makes no sense. Tell that to various international global rankings in innovation / research indexes that controls for quality and impact factors. China starting to lead in many strategic high tech fields. High impact research doesn't seem to have a problem citing Chinese papers. Espionage built the base and fills in gaps. Combine with domestic research = rapidly propelling Chinese RD competitiveness. Whine all you like, strategy is working and reflected in reality. Not to mention industrial policy is modelled after west, China likes to copy what works after all, it just learned to play the same game well. > China's growth was helped mainly Yet it grew to 2nd largest economy, 1st by PPP measures. Model worked in China but not India who had better starting conditions. China had exceptionally onerous WTO accession protocols, sanctions and other geopolitical hindrances. Ultimately it's about playing cards that are dealt, which were much less charitable than your fantasies. CCP just managed cards competently and continues to, seeing how FDI is up, minimum amount of foreign companies are moving out despite cold war, Chinese companies expanding abroad, trade deals being signed, further entangling more economies to Chinese supply chains. Demographic crisis overblown, China's a medium income country with plenty of room to grow, enough cheap surplus labour to maintain infrastructure and negotiate demographic transition. Meanwhile western infrastructure actually rotting, living standards are declining. See which countries are actually losing shit over economic anxiety, fracturing over immigration to maintain unsustainable safety nets and coping with rants like yours. China isn't a developed country, it's not going to deal with developing country problems based on poor projection. Poor Chinese are going to die poor, but still richer than they were. That's an arguable easy crisis to deal with than pervasive decline in QOL in west. > outsourced that with industrial espionage Again refer to steady upward trend of Chinese academic institutions. China only middle-income country to break top rank. Mid-ranking universities have converged and started to outperform mid-ranking western institutions. It's just getting started. > what's the fucking benefit Just 40x increase in economy since 90s and massive aggregate QoL improvements I guess. Maybe also triggering folks like you. Hundred millions = urbanization rate from 60% -> 70% by 2025... then onto 80%. That's 300M people... Remind me how much surplus units there are? Obviously some waste, but broadly oversupply was planned as part of general urbanization strategy trying to get rid of subsistent farmers kept around for stability maintenance. > always end up costing more Said every China collapse proponents every year for the past 30 years, yet somehow China is now a viable strategic competitor to US. > Chabuduo constructions are crumbling Actually worked in construction field in China / West. Residential developments in North America failing as much as ones I've worked on in China. Except China builds it cheaper and faster. BTW most of South Korea has shitty construction quality due to rapid development. It's been decades, unsurprisingly not actually an existential problem. Not to mention the amount of seemingly unworkable starchitect designs in tier1/2 cities that are doing fine. Hint: construction isn't rocket science. Some accidents as result of building more than the world combined or US in last 100 years is negligible. I'll take that over NIMBYism stagnant infrastructure/development any day.