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Hospitals are not beyond capacity everywhere where lockdowns are being imposed. Hospital overcapacity is extremely location-dependent. Also, hospital overcapac

Hospitals are not beyond capacity everywhere where lockdowns are being imposed. Hospital overcapacity is extremely location-dependent. Also, hospital overcapacity in itself does not justify lockdown policies. Some would argue that not being allow indoor dining or to walk outside after 10pm is a violation of basic human rights (not to mention neither of these measures were implemented in Korea for example).

wvenable 6y ago
South Korea has had a relatively small number of COVID cases. Kindergartens, schools, universities, cinemas, gyms were closed soon after the outbreak with schools and universities having online classes. You're mixing up cause and effect. South Korea has definitely considered lock down measures as cased increased but so far they haven't needed to. Not only is hospital overcapacity location-dependent but so have been the location and severity of the lock downs around the world. Every few weeks where I am from the restrictions are re-considered based on the rate of infection, etc.
- JSavageOne 6y ago
  My point was that lockdowns aren't necessary, and rather than jumping to lockdown, we should be looking to learn from the countries that handled the pandemic better than us. In America the dialogue basically seems to just be "omg cases are rising? SHUT DOWN EVERYTHING". Not enough attention is put on the million other less destructive measures that can be taken to reduce the spread. Right now for example I'm in a third world country with a highly ranked healthcare system (above Germany). No lockdown here, hospitals aren't overwhelmed, and life is almost like normal (other than half the local businesses appearing to be out of business). There are basic measures like hand sanitizer everywhere, and needing to put it on to say enter a shopping mall. 2 weeks ago I was in the U.S., and I never really even saw that. I was in a post office, and I had to ask the cashier if they had sanitizer and she took a little bottle from the back, after which I'd imagine she put it back behind the counter as if hiding it from customers. When I took an Amtrak train nobody offered hand sanitizer or checked my temperature. I'm not saying that having hand sanitizer available is the cure to containing COVID, I'm saying that these are the absolute easiest to implement measures that even third world countries have managed to implement, and the U.S. is not even capable of that. The U.S. seems incapable of doing anything other than telling restaurants they need to shut down, which is absurd (yes there are things being done behind the scenes and I'm hand-waving a bit, but the point is that even compared to third world countries, the U.S./west appears to be immensely incompetent despite being the wealthiest countries)
  - wvenable 6y ago
    > In America the dialogue basically seems to just be "omg cases are rising? SHUT DOWN EVERYTHING". I have relatives that live in Florida (in fact, I was Florida the day the pandemic was declared). And just a few months ago Florida just basically declared the pandemic is over -- no shut down, no mandatory masks, and the social distancing signs and materials gone. A shut down is a big stick that's needed once the exponential growth starts returning and all signs are that things are going to get overwhelmed. In this US, this is a regular issue. You say your point isn't the lockdowns aren't necessary but now it really isn't clear what your saying. If the point is the US is, in general, incompetent at this then I wouldn't disagree. But I'd argue your focus on lock downs is misplaced rather than everyone else's. The same people who don't want lock downs also don't want all those million other less destructive measures. And people who may want lock downs also want those million other less destructive measures.
  - UncleMeat 6y ago
    But we aren’t in shut down everything mode. Basically everything, including indoor dining, has been open for months. Pretty much the only thing that is still locked down is schools.

wvenable 6y ago

South Korea has had a relatively small number of COVID cases. Kindergartens, schools, universities, cinemas, gyms were closed soon after the outbreak with schools and universities having online classes. You're mixing up cause and effect. South Korea has definitely considered lock down measures as cased increased but so far they haven't needed to. Not only is hospital overcapacity location-dependent but so have been the location and severity of the lock downs around the world. Every few weeks where I am from the restrictions are re-considered based on the rate of infection, etc.

JSavageOne 6y ago
My point was that lockdowns aren't necessary, and rather than jumping to lockdown, we should be looking to learn from the countries that handled the pandemic better than us. In America the dialogue basically seems to just be "omg cases are rising? SHUT DOWN EVERYTHING". Not enough attention is put on the million other less destructive measures that can be taken to reduce the spread. Right now for example I'm in a third world country with a highly ranked healthcare system (above Germany). No lockdown here, hospitals aren't overwhelmed, and life is almost like normal (other than half the local businesses appearing to be out of business). There are basic measures like hand sanitizer everywhere, and needing to put it on to say enter a shopping mall. 2 weeks ago I was in the U.S., and I never really even saw that. I was in a post office, and I had to ask the cashier if they had sanitizer and she took a little bottle from the back, after which I'd imagine she put it back behind the counter as if hiding it from customers. When I took an Amtrak train nobody offered hand sanitizer or checked my temperature. I'm not saying that having hand sanitizer available is the cure to containing COVID, I'm saying that these are the absolute easiest to implement measures that even third world countries have managed to implement, and the U.S. is not even capable of that. The U.S. seems incapable of doing anything other than telling restaurants they need to shut down, which is absurd (yes there are things being done behind the scenes and I'm hand-waving a bit, but the point is that even compared to third world countries, the U.S./west appears to be immensely incompetent despite being the wealthiest countries)
- wvenable 6y ago
  > In America the dialogue basically seems to just be "omg cases are rising? SHUT DOWN EVERYTHING". I have relatives that live in Florida (in fact, I was Florida the day the pandemic was declared). And just a few months ago Florida just basically declared the pandemic is over -- no shut down, no mandatory masks, and the social distancing signs and materials gone. A shut down is a big stick that's needed once the exponential growth starts returning and all signs are that things are going to get overwhelmed. In this US, this is a regular issue. You say your point isn't the lockdowns aren't necessary but now it really isn't clear what your saying. If the point is the US is, in general, incompetent at this then I wouldn't disagree. But I'd argue your focus on lock downs is misplaced rather than everyone else's. The same people who don't want lock downs also don't want all those million other less destructive measures. And people who may want lock downs also want those million other less destructive measures.
- UncleMeat 6y ago
  But we aren’t in shut down everything mode. Basically everything, including indoor dining, has been open for months. Pretty much the only thing that is still locked down is schools.