3 ms·

He's got it mostly all wrong. Fertilizer isn't the major contributor it's livestock manure from large farms. If you aren't aware crop farming is a very low ma

by rmason 6y ago

He's got it mostly all wrong. Fertilizer isn't the major contributor it's livestock manure from large farms. If you aren't aware crop farming is a very low margin business. Fertilizer costs real money so if you over fertilize you're likely to lose money. It's changing slowly but large livestock operations used to spread manure where it was convenient, not where the extra fertilizer was needed. Now they're required to file plans, complete with soil tests to show they're putting the manure where it's less likely to be a problem. When I left the fertilizer business over twenty years ago we were helping the large livestock farms begin composting. If you rid the manure of it's largest component which is water then hauling a load to a distant field is way more possible. Hard for some to believe but people who sold fertilizer were encouraging there customers to use less! Imagine a car dealer telling you not to buy an additional car. The government also had a program where they would pay farmers to plant grass strips along waterways with the idea the strips would intercept the nutrients from fertilizer or manure before they reached the water. However I believe funding for that program was cut which may be adding to the problem.

robinsord 6y ago
Wow, so you’re a paid fertilizer schill. You do realize that when you strip away the absolutely catastrophic agricultural devastation we’ve created — glyphosate, pesticides, monocropping, soil erosion, CAFO — that cow manure is the absolute gold of compost and the absolute best fertilizer, right? You do realize that 30+ Million bison once roamed the US, grazing and pooping, which is why we had some of the most fertile and incredible soil on the planet? And then we fucked everything up and came in and poured our chemicals and artificial farming ideas all over the land and now it’s absolutely torched. And now everyone is beholden to this toxic CAFO and monocropping machine filled with chemicals and pesticides and runoff and disease and antibacterial agents and so much unholy madness that no one can even see the light of day, outside of a few regenerative farming advocates who are desperately trying to shake people into understanding how farming CAN AND SHOULD WORK based on the way the planet already figured out thousands of years ago for us. But sure buddy. Blame it all on ‘manure’.
stefan_ 6y ago
This seems like a silly distinction. Where's all the feed from that fuels the manure? It's plain obvious this problem is caused by our greatly expanded production of fertilizer since the Haber-Bosch process.
- smearth 6y ago
  A variable is the water temperature and it’s oxygenation level. Shading the feeder waterways with 20 m belts of trees, using carbon credits to offset the establishment costs then compensating farmers for the lost area should help. Everyone is winning. The higher oxygenated cooler water will utilise nitrogen and phosphate more effectively, less nitrogen and phosphate will get into the water as it’s absorbed by trees and less fertiliser will be required because soil hydrology will improve, reducing the amount that runs off instead of turning into plants. Every 2km of waterway bank planted would hold 1500 tonne of carbon eventually. Erosion would decrease so some local bridge and road infrastructure budgets could go towards more planting. And everywhere you saw corridors of trees in paddocks you would think of native animals traisping along their natural highways. Humans won’t cooperate and go backwards financially and or reputationally. This would potentially avoid that. It’s not the optimum but would have a positive impact for all involved and a chance of success.
- Nasrudith 6y ago
  It is a damn important one - going with say novrk fertilizer which breaks down from being "too pressurized" like in depths of water as heat bursts would be less bad than red tides won't do any good when the cause is pigshit. Plus even if we were fighting wars for guano still manure could have still caused blooms.
whalesalad 6y ago
Dude come on... we don’t do a lot of livestock up here. It’s all corn and beans. It’s definitely fertilizer and pesticides, no doubt about it.
- samatman 6y ago
  Michigan has ~300,000 dairy cows, ~100,000 beef cows, and around a million pigs: https://www.michigan.gov/documents/deq/deq-ogl-sbci-MI-Livestock_204805_7.pdf https://www.michigan.gov/documents/deq/deq-ogl-sbci-MI-Lives... This document also discusses manure and runoff problems, although not in much detail, it looks to be a PDF of a slide show. Lake Michigan borders Wisconsin, a state known for animal husbandry.
  - sjg007 6y ago
    Those aren’t the issue

by rmason 6y ago

robinsord 6y ago

Wow, so you’re a paid fertilizer schill. You do realize that when you strip away the absolutely catastrophic agricultural devastation we’ve created — glyphosate, pesticides, monocropping, soil erosion, CAFO — that cow manure is the absolute gold of compost and the absolute best fertilizer, right? You do realize that 30+ Million bison once roamed the US, grazing and pooping, which is why we had some of the most fertile and incredible soil on the planet? And then we fucked everything up and came in and poured our chemicals and artificial farming ideas all over the land and now it’s absolutely torched. And now everyone is beholden to this toxic CAFO and monocropping machine filled with chemicals and pesticides and runoff and disease and antibacterial agents and so much unholy madness that no one can even see the light of day, outside of a few regenerative farming advocates who are desperately trying to shake people into understanding how farming CAN AND SHOULD WORK based on the way the planet already figured out thousands of years ago for us. But sure buddy. Blame it all on ‘manure’.

stefan_ 6y ago

This seems like a silly distinction. Where's all the feed from that fuels the manure? It's plain obvious this problem is caused by our greatly expanded production of fertilizer since the Haber-Bosch process.

smearth 6y ago
A variable is the water temperature and it’s oxygenation level. Shading the feeder waterways with 20 m belts of trees, using carbon credits to offset the establishment costs then compensating farmers for the lost area should help. Everyone is winning. The higher oxygenated cooler water will utilise nitrogen and phosphate more effectively, less nitrogen and phosphate will get into the water as it’s absorbed by trees and less fertiliser will be required because soil hydrology will improve, reducing the amount that runs off instead of turning into plants. Every 2km of waterway bank planted would hold 1500 tonne of carbon eventually. Erosion would decrease so some local bridge and road infrastructure budgets could go towards more planting. And everywhere you saw corridors of trees in paddocks you would think of native animals traisping along their natural highways. Humans won’t cooperate and go backwards financially and or reputationally. This would potentially avoid that. It’s not the optimum but would have a positive impact for all involved and a chance of success.
Nasrudith 6y ago
It is a damn important one - going with say novrk fertilizer which breaks down from being "too pressurized" like in depths of water as heat bursts would be less bad than red tides won't do any good when the cause is pigshit. Plus even if we were fighting wars for guano still manure could have still caused blooms.

whalesalad 6y ago

Dude come on... we don’t do a lot of livestock up here. It’s all corn and beans. It’s definitely fertilizer and pesticides, no doubt about it.

samatman 6y ago
Michigan has ~300,000 dairy cows, ~100,000 beef cows, and around a million pigs: https://www.michigan.gov/documents/deq/deq-ogl-sbci-MI-Livestock_204805_7.pdf https://www.michigan.gov/documents/deq/deq-ogl-sbci-MI-Lives... This document also discusses manure and runoff problems, although not in much detail, it looks to be a PDF of a slide show. Lake Michigan borders Wisconsin, a state known for animal husbandry.
- sjg007 6y ago
  Those aren’t the issue