3 ms·

I'm kind of in awe at this comment. Not for good reasons, but still. In case anyone is wondering, no, zebra mussels are still bad. No one was claiming they wou

by Ardon 6y ago

I'm kind of in awe at this comment. Not for good reasons, but still. In case anyone is wondering, no, zebra mussels are still bad. No one was claiming they wouldn't filter water, a feature of all mussels. "So much for the experts, and alarmists." lol I believe this is what Ian Danskin coined a "Shrodinger's Douchebag", someone who says dumb and harmful things, then decides if he was joking or not based on reaction.

dukeofdoom 6y ago
Dude, I lived through a decade of the "acid rain", and "hole in the ozone" is going to kill us all. I've come to realize that these people are not journalists. They are activists. There's as much science to their claims, as there are genders in the sky.
- jacobolus 6y ago
  Ozone depletion was a very serious problem, so in the late 80s there was an international agreement to ban CFCs, halons, and other ozone-depleting chemicals. It is by no means fixed yet, but now ozone is heading back towards its previous levels, and should be recovered by around 2075. This is a great example of activism working to solve a serious global problem via public policy changes. You can read all about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone_depletion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone_depletion
  - dukeofdoom 6y ago
    Except, in the same time frame, we went from only the West having Ozone polluting Air Conditioning, to pretty much the whole World having those. In the same time frame, the rest of the world industrialized and are using ozone damaging chemicals on a massive scale. There's no way we actually reduced these chemicals in absolute numbers. Yet the ozone layer is still intact, and apparently its improved. Care to explain?
    - dakna 6y ago
      > the rest of the world industrialized and are using ozone damaging chemicals on a massive scale I would like to know more about the rest of the world you mentioned, since the Montreal Protocol (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Protocol https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Protocol) has been ratified by all United Nations members and the European Union. Based on observed data, it also seems to have the expected positive effect.
      - dukeofdoom 6y ago
        They are just now starting to phase out the r22 refrigerant used in ACs with a new one r410, which it self will be phased out. So during the last two decades, the number of ACs used, in places like India and China, has grown exponentially. I've been to India. Window ACs hanging out of windows everywhere. And thats only one of the polluting chemicals. Impossible to measure how much is released in China during manufacturing. Perhaps, I've died and this is all a dream. But I do believe the world did not end yet. Despite all the articles from blowhards, preaching doom through the last two decades.
        dakna 6y ago
        r22 has a much lower ozone depletion potential than r11/r12, which were used as refrigerants before. AC use in developing countries is more a global warming issue than an ozone shield issue. A lot of replacements are highly potent greenhouse gases. The ozone shield had a 4 percent loss since the 70s in average, much larger local losses aka "ozone holes". Fortunately not many people live at the north or south pole. This sheds some light on what it took to get enough support to actually change regulations: https://www.sciencehistory.org/distillations/podcast/whatever-happened-to-the-ozone-hole https://www.sciencehistory.org/distillations/podcast/whateve...
  - kazinator 6y ago
    Though the CFC and ozone story is inspiring in some ways, it has limitations. It's a very specific problem caused by very specific substances used in a very specific way, for which alternatives are easily found. There isn't a lot of complexity to the problem, relatively speaking.

by Ardon 6y ago

dukeofdoom 6y ago

Dude, I lived through a decade of the "acid rain", and "hole in the ozone" is going to kill us all. I've come to realize that these people are not journalists. They are activists. There's as much science to their claims, as there are genders in the sky.

jacobolus 6y ago
Ozone depletion was a very serious problem, so in the late 80s there was an international agreement to ban CFCs, halons, and other ozone-depleting chemicals. It is by no means fixed yet, but now ozone is heading back towards its previous levels, and should be recovered by around 2075. This is a great example of activism working to solve a serious global problem via public policy changes. You can read all about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone_depletion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone_depletion
- dukeofdoom 6y ago
  Except, in the same time frame, we went from only the West having Ozone polluting Air Conditioning, to pretty much the whole World having those. In the same time frame, the rest of the world industrialized and are using ozone damaging chemicals on a massive scale. There's no way we actually reduced these chemicals in absolute numbers. Yet the ozone layer is still intact, and apparently its improved. Care to explain?
  - dakna 6y ago
    > the rest of the world industrialized and are using ozone damaging chemicals on a massive scale I would like to know more about the rest of the world you mentioned, since the Montreal Protocol (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Protocol https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Protocol) has been ratified by all United Nations members and the European Union. Based on observed data, it also seems to have the expected positive effect.
    - dukeofdoom 6y ago
      They are just now starting to phase out the r22 refrigerant used in ACs with a new one r410, which it self will be phased out. So during the last two decades, the number of ACs used, in places like India and China, has grown exponentially. I've been to India. Window ACs hanging out of windows everywhere. And thats only one of the polluting chemicals. Impossible to measure how much is released in China during manufacturing. Perhaps, I've died and this is all a dream. But I do believe the world did not end yet. Despite all the articles from blowhards, preaching doom through the last two decades.
      - dakna 6y ago
        r22 has a much lower ozone depletion potential than r11/r12, which were used as refrigerants before. AC use in developing countries is more a global warming issue than an ozone shield issue. A lot of replacements are highly potent greenhouse gases. The ozone shield had a 4 percent loss since the 70s in average, much larger local losses aka "ozone holes". Fortunately not many people live at the north or south pole. This sheds some light on what it took to get enough support to actually change regulations: https://www.sciencehistory.org/distillations/podcast/whatever-happened-to-the-ozone-hole https://www.sciencehistory.org/distillations/podcast/whateve...
- kazinator 6y ago
  Though the CFC and ozone story is inspiring in some ways, it has limitations. It's a very specific problem caused by very specific substances used in a very specific way, for which alternatives are easily found. There isn't a lot of complexity to the problem, relatively speaking.