5 ms·

Affirmation-only in the form of behaving as if women and transwomen are indistinguishable is not always productive. For an example, if you write a feature telli

Affirmation-only in the form of behaving as if women and transwomen are indistinguishable is not always productive. For an example, if you write a feature telling people to watch and cheer on women speedrunners but you only include people who were successful male speedrunners before their transition you are not encouraging more women to join the hobby.

howinteresting 6y ago
Obviously cis and trans women are not completely indistinguishable -- they have overlapping but distinct medical needs, for example. This is a strawman position. However, GCs tend to believe in an oppositionally sexist view of the world, where your assigned sex at birth puts you in one of two firm categories, and any sort of crossing over or breach between categories is impossible. That's how GCs construct their categories.
- Causality1 6y ago
  It is not. https://www.autostraddle.com/6-amazing-women-speedrunners-to-follow-after-awesome-games-done-quick-2018-412698/ https://www.autostraddle.com/6-amazing-women-speedrunners-to... "Six amazing women speedrunners" and only one of them actually had to build their rep as a woman.
  - howinteresting 6y ago
    Oh, speedrunning, as in video games. Meh. That's completely unobjectionable to me -- fact is that a lot of trans people used video games to escape from society's bullshit when they were younger, which is why we're overrepresented in video game communities. To the extent that a cis woman has trouble being inspired by a trans woman speedrunner, she should probably work on her own internalized transphobia. Thankfully, this view is vanishing among younger people: they generally take it for granted that the category of womanhood includes cis and trans women.
- krrrh 6y ago
  > puts you in one of two firm categories, and any sort of crossing over or breach between categories is impossible I find this debate interesting so I try to read a lot of different perspectives. I think the /r/gendercritical position was more nuanced than you make it out. They think that while humans can’t change their sex, rigid ideas of what it is to be a man or woman are one of the things that causes some people to feel like they need to. They would say that society should accept a and encourage a broader range of expressions of femaleness and maleness than it does now. The GC position, as I understand it, decries the idea that a butch dyke should feel the need to live under a male identity just because she is far outside of the “firm category” of feminine or has many traditional masculine traits. It’s why they use terms like “butch erasure” [1]. It’s something interesting that I learned reading a now-banned subreddit which helped me to have more compassion and understanding for people who haven’t always had the easiest time in life. [1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IrnJOSk-3kA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IrnJOSk-3kA
  - howinteresting 6y ago
    Of course society should accept a broader view of maleness and femaleness. Of course butches should be able to live as women if that's what they are. That is exactly the direction I want the world to go in. Why in the world would you think I or any other trans person would think differently? My problem with GCs (in their strongest firm) is the policy prescriptions. Making medical transition harder. Making it harder to get updated documents. Opposing anti-harassment laws in our workplaces and schools. Not letting us use the bathroom in peace. GCs do a really slimy shift from policy to philosophy and back that indicates a deep disrespect for our experiences. I know trans women who present quite masculine while being on estrogen and having changed their name and pronouns. They're butch dykes living as women, not men. They're literally exactly what GCs claim to want. But would GCs think so? No, because their brain is warped by oppositional sexism. The GC position is absurd, untenable, and simply does not fit with the available evidence about humanity.
  - implements 6y ago
    > They think that while humans can’t change their sex, rigid ideas of what it is to be a man or woman are one of the things that causes some people to feel like they need to. They would say that society should accept a and encourage a broader range of expressions of femaleness and maleness than it does now. I can’t speak for all GC people, but for me it’s more a rejection of seeing certain behaviours as gendered at all - rather than things individuals may do. Current trans ideology makes what sex people identify as vitally important, and something that requires gate keeping by femininity. “Womanhood is for feminine people, being feminine is the most important aspect of who I am”. The GC position, ironically, sees sex as primarily important for the purposes of reproduction - though, in the context of ongoing sexual inequality also important for social justice. “Womanhood is for female people, being female is a relatively minor aspect of who I am as a unique individual”.
- implements 6y ago
  The overlap is because they’re both human, not both forms of women. Sexism is “prejudice or discrimination based on a person's sex or gender. Sexism can affect anyone, but it primarily affects women and girls. It has been linked to stereotypes and gender roles, and may include the belief that one sex or gender is intrinsically superior to another”. GCs reject sexism. Rejecting sexism doesn’t mean rejecting the reality of men and women being genetically distinct and having different body plans for the purposes of reproduction. Rejecting sexism doesn’t mean refusing to discriminate when discrimination is necessary for the socially just goal of sexual and gender equality. Sex is recognised at birth, not assigned at birth - it’s determined at fertilisation: XX or XY. Assuming you’re a transwoman. Your sex is male, and your gender is feminine. Women and transwomen substantially share a gender, given most women choose to be feminine and most transwomen feel compelled to present and be seen as feminine. This is fine, every GC person I know accepts the right of individuals to choose their expressed gender and be free from unreasonable discrimination. What we don’t accept is the refusal to acknowledge that women also have a sex-based component of identity that transwomen don’t share. I appreciate that this causes psychological stress to people with a dysphoria that is only calmed by affirmation of successfully changed sex - but - the physical reality of the situation can not be changed or rationally denied.
  - howinteresting 6y ago
    These are all specific constructed definitions of "sex" that do a poor job of modeling the reality of variation in humanity. There is no fundamental law of the universe which says that sex must be defined through gametes or chromosomes. In any case, all this definition stuff is secondary to how our actual lives are affected by this nonsense. As a transfeminine person I've been using women's bathrooms for many years without incident, but most GCs would want to make that illegal. Many GCs think I shouldn't have access to healthcare for my breasts. All my friends and coworkers use my pronouns, but many GCs would refuse to. The list goes on. GCs say they want me to live a life free of discrimination but also want to put me in situations where I'm going to face discrimination, like making it harder for me to update my documents. It's all lies fueled by distrust and hatred. I'm just a normal person who wants to live my life in a self-respecting manner. I don't ever want to interact with a GC but I'm forced to because their policy recommendations keep getting in my way. I really want to do better things with my life than deal with a bunch of boundary cops.

howinteresting 6y ago

Obviously cis and trans women are not completely indistinguishable -- they have overlapping but distinct medical needs, for example. This is a strawman position. However, GCs tend to believe in an oppositionally sexist view of the world, where your assigned sex at birth puts you in one of two firm categories, and any sort of crossing over or breach between categories is impossible. That's how GCs construct their categories.

Causality1 6y ago
It is not. https://www.autostraddle.com/6-amazing-women-speedrunners-to-follow-after-awesome-games-done-quick-2018-412698/ https://www.autostraddle.com/6-amazing-women-speedrunners-to... "Six amazing women speedrunners" and only one of them actually had to build their rep as a woman.
- howinteresting 6y ago
  Oh, speedrunning, as in video games. Meh. That's completely unobjectionable to me -- fact is that a lot of trans people used video games to escape from society's bullshit when they were younger, which is why we're overrepresented in video game communities. To the extent that a cis woman has trouble being inspired by a trans woman speedrunner, she should probably work on her own internalized transphobia. Thankfully, this view is vanishing among younger people: they generally take it for granted that the category of womanhood includes cis and trans women.
krrrh 6y ago
> puts you in one of two firm categories, and any sort of crossing over or breach between categories is impossible I find this debate interesting so I try to read a lot of different perspectives. I think the /r/gendercritical position was more nuanced than you make it out. They think that while humans can’t change their sex, rigid ideas of what it is to be a man or woman are one of the things that causes some people to feel like they need to. They would say that society should accept a and encourage a broader range of expressions of femaleness and maleness than it does now. The GC position, as I understand it, decries the idea that a butch dyke should feel the need to live under a male identity just because she is far outside of the “firm category” of feminine or has many traditional masculine traits. It’s why they use terms like “butch erasure” [1]. It’s something interesting that I learned reading a now-banned subreddit which helped me to have more compassion and understanding for people who haven’t always had the easiest time in life. [1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IrnJOSk-3kA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IrnJOSk-3kA
- howinteresting 6y ago
  Of course society should accept a broader view of maleness and femaleness. Of course butches should be able to live as women if that's what they are. That is exactly the direction I want the world to go in. Why in the world would you think I or any other trans person would think differently? My problem with GCs (in their strongest firm) is the policy prescriptions. Making medical transition harder. Making it harder to get updated documents. Opposing anti-harassment laws in our workplaces and schools. Not letting us use the bathroom in peace. GCs do a really slimy shift from policy to philosophy and back that indicates a deep disrespect for our experiences. I know trans women who present quite masculine while being on estrogen and having changed their name and pronouns. They're butch dykes living as women, not men. They're literally exactly what GCs claim to want. But would GCs think so? No, because their brain is warped by oppositional sexism. The GC position is absurd, untenable, and simply does not fit with the available evidence about humanity.
- implements 6y ago
  > They think that while humans can’t change their sex, rigid ideas of what it is to be a man or woman are one of the things that causes some people to feel like they need to. They would say that society should accept a and encourage a broader range of expressions of femaleness and maleness than it does now. I can’t speak for all GC people, but for me it’s more a rejection of seeing certain behaviours as gendered at all - rather than things individuals may do. Current trans ideology makes what sex people identify as vitally important, and something that requires gate keeping by femininity. “Womanhood is for feminine people, being feminine is the most important aspect of who I am”. The GC position, ironically, sees sex as primarily important for the purposes of reproduction - though, in the context of ongoing sexual inequality also important for social justice. “Womanhood is for female people, being female is a relatively minor aspect of who I am as a unique individual”.
implements 6y ago
The overlap is because they’re both human, not both forms of women. Sexism is “prejudice or discrimination based on a person's sex or gender. Sexism can affect anyone, but it primarily affects women and girls. It has been linked to stereotypes and gender roles, and may include the belief that one sex or gender is intrinsically superior to another”. GCs reject sexism. Rejecting sexism doesn’t mean rejecting the reality of men and women being genetically distinct and having different body plans for the purposes of reproduction. Rejecting sexism doesn’t mean refusing to discriminate when discrimination is necessary for the socially just goal of sexual and gender equality. Sex is recognised at birth, not assigned at birth - it’s determined at fertilisation: XX or XY. Assuming you’re a transwoman. Your sex is male, and your gender is feminine. Women and transwomen substantially share a gender, given most women choose to be feminine and most transwomen feel compelled to present and be seen as feminine. This is fine, every GC person I know accepts the right of individuals to choose their expressed gender and be free from unreasonable discrimination. What we don’t accept is the refusal to acknowledge that women also have a sex-based component of identity that transwomen don’t share. I appreciate that this causes psychological stress to people with a dysphoria that is only calmed by affirmation of successfully changed sex - but - the physical reality of the situation can not be changed or rationally denied.
- howinteresting 6y ago
  These are all specific constructed definitions of "sex" that do a poor job of modeling the reality of variation in humanity. There is no fundamental law of the universe which says that sex must be defined through gametes or chromosomes. In any case, all this definition stuff is secondary to how our actual lives are affected by this nonsense. As a transfeminine person I've been using women's bathrooms for many years without incident, but most GCs would want to make that illegal. Many GCs think I shouldn't have access to healthcare for my breasts. All my friends and coworkers use my pronouns, but many GCs would refuse to. The list goes on. GCs say they want me to live a life free of discrimination but also want to put me in situations where I'm going to face discrimination, like making it harder for me to update my documents. It's all lies fueled by distrust and hatred. I'm just a normal person who wants to live my life in a self-respecting manner. I don't ever want to interact with a GC but I'm forced to because their policy recommendations keep getting in my way. I really want to do better things with my life than deal with a bunch of boundary cops.