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They balance their budget by skipping the expensive day care. There just isn't any way for a normal person to get day care for a family. It isn't even legal for

They balance their budget by skipping the expensive day care. There just isn't any way for a normal person to get day care for a family. It isn't even legal for a day care to have the same adult-to-kid ratio as a family can have, so you'd be paying multiple adults to do the job of one parent. If they get normal pay, then the parent must earn much more than normal pay.

lotsofpulp 6y ago
The most strict ratio requirements I've seen for daycares is 4 kids to 1 adult (7 kids to 2 adults in Massachusetts) for toddlers and younger.
- souprock 6y ago
  3.5 kids per adult then. So for just 3.5 kids, you'd need to pay 100% of a salary plus all the extras of running a business. (insurance, legal, finance, advertising, sewage, electricity, food, toys, etc.) Given the overhead, you'd expect daycare for 2 kids to consume the working parent's entire pay. For a low-paid parent, just 1 kid might consume the entire pay. Obviously that isn't viable. I know a handyman in Massachusetts who had at least 11 kids. It's perfectly legal for his wife to care for 11 kids.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    Were all 11 kids under the age of 3? FYI, it takes differing amounts of attention and work to care for children at different ages. I don’t know if you have ever cared for a baby, but I have with a ratio of 2 kids under 3 years old and 1 adult (myself), and I don’t even know how people at daycare do it with a 4 to 1 ratio.
    - souprock 6y ago
      I have 12 kids, with one more to be born this summer. The 4th and 5th were twins. Babies are not difficult. Teenagers are difficult. I have experience with both.
      - lotsofpulp 6y ago
        I think it’s safe to say you are an outlier if you can handle more than 4 infants or toddlers at once, either in terms of skill or acceptance of lower standards in levels of care.
        jtbayly 6y ago
        You’re missing the point. Daycare costs are extremely high. Why? Precisely because of what souprock says and you are actually agreeing with him. It’s not uncommon for it to cost the full pay of the mother for two kids, especially if they are infant/toddler as you say. But it is extremely uncommon for a family to have 4 kids toddler and under. Because kids grow up. So raising kids in a family instead of in a daycare is far more efficient, (ignoring for a moment all the other obvious benefits) and the cost is correspondingly lower. Thus, balancing the budget in the context of having children often means skipping the absurd costs of daycare.
        lotsofpulp 6y ago
        Obviously costs are lower in a situation where you don’t have to pay for labor compared to a situation where you have to pay for labor. I inferred souprock’s initial comments as daycare costs being too high due to government regulations requiring excessive labor for childcare, and my comments are to show that the regulations are not excessive, or at least not anything out of the norm compared to parents who stayed home (I don’t know anyone who can handle 4 infants by themselves). And balancing the budget also includes the present value of future income that can be earned by a parent that stays home during toddler years versus one that continues to work and pays for daycare. Clearly, many people are betting that even the high costs of daycare are worth paying in exchange for the (increased) security of future cash flow from working.

lotsofpulp 6y ago

The most strict ratio requirements I've seen for daycares is 4 kids to 1 adult (7 kids to 2 adults in Massachusetts) for toddlers and younger.

souprock 6y ago
3.5 kids per adult then. So for just 3.5 kids, you'd need to pay 100% of a salary plus all the extras of running a business. (insurance, legal, finance, advertising, sewage, electricity, food, toys, etc.) Given the overhead, you'd expect daycare for 2 kids to consume the working parent's entire pay. For a low-paid parent, just 1 kid might consume the entire pay. Obviously that isn't viable. I know a handyman in Massachusetts who had at least 11 kids. It's perfectly legal for his wife to care for 11 kids.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  Were all 11 kids under the age of 3? FYI, it takes differing amounts of attention and work to care for children at different ages. I don’t know if you have ever cared for a baby, but I have with a ratio of 2 kids under 3 years old and 1 adult (myself), and I don’t even know how people at daycare do it with a 4 to 1 ratio.
  - souprock 6y ago
    I have 12 kids, with one more to be born this summer. The 4th and 5th were twins. Babies are not difficult. Teenagers are difficult. I have experience with both.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      I think it’s safe to say you are an outlier if you can handle more than 4 infants or toddlers at once, either in terms of skill or acceptance of lower standards in levels of care.
      - jtbayly 6y ago
        You’re missing the point. Daycare costs are extremely high. Why? Precisely because of what souprock says and you are actually agreeing with him. It’s not uncommon for it to cost the full pay of the mother for two kids, especially if they are infant/toddler as you say. But it is extremely uncommon for a family to have 4 kids toddler and under. Because kids grow up. So raising kids in a family instead of in a daycare is far more efficient, (ignoring for a moment all the other obvious benefits) and the cost is correspondingly lower. Thus, balancing the budget in the context of having children often means skipping the absurd costs of daycare.
        lotsofpulp 6y ago
        Obviously costs are lower in a situation where you don’t have to pay for labor compared to a situation where you have to pay for labor. I inferred souprock’s initial comments as daycare costs being too high due to government regulations requiring excessive labor for childcare, and my comments are to show that the regulations are not excessive, or at least not anything out of the norm compared to parents who stayed home (I don’t know anyone who can handle 4 infants by themselves). And balancing the budget also includes the present value of future income that can be earned by a parent that stays home during toddler years versus one that continues to work and pays for daycare. Clearly, many people are betting that even the high costs of daycare are worth paying in exchange for the (increased) security of future cash flow from working.