12 ms·

Out of curiosity: would you categorize milk-producing cows as a part of our natural environment? I'm not an expert, but I don't believe they existed as we know

Out of curiosity: would you categorize milk-producing cows as a part of our natural environment? I'm not an expert, but I don't believe they existed as we know them today until man took an active hand in selectively breeding them into the very useful animal they are today. In other words, we're now just doing - albeit with sharper tools - to bacteria what we've been doing for millenia to all kinds of animals and plants in our "environment".

luckylion 6y ago
> I'm not an expert, but I don't believe they existed as we know them today until man took an active hand in selectively breeding them into the very useful animal they are today. I don't know either, but that feels counter-intuitive. Would ancient humans figure "hey, see that animal over there? I bet with a selective breeding program we could make it produce milk when it calves and we'd be able to drink that and get nutrients".
- ur-whale 6y ago
  I do remember reading a research article a long time ago saying that is precisely what happened with wheat (did not exist in the wild as we know it today, was bred over millenia into the flour-yielding plant we know today). It's not a long shot to imagine that animals like cows and goats (or dog, for that matter, although not with food as a goal) were given the same treatment.
  - jiofih 6y ago
    Not a long shot at all - nearly every animal you encounter today is the result of domestication or human interaction, unless you go for a safari. Even pidgeons.
  - jfim 6y ago
    Chickens have changed a lot in the last 50 years as well. This 2014 paper [0] compares the growth of chicken breeds from 1957, 1978, and 2005. The pictures of chickens at 56 days are pretty striking. [0] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579119385505?via=ihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S003257911...
soperj 6y ago
They don't. In fact they can't actually currently exist on their own. If a calf tried to feed off it's mother it would drown because the mothers produce far too much milk. They actually have to bottle feed the calves now.
- pvaldes 6y ago
  > If a calf tried to feed off it's mother it would drown because the mothers produce far too much milk. Yep, Isn't wonderful pseudoscience? It has all the answers and all are wrong and satisfactory. Animals -know- when they are satiated.
  - soperj 6y ago
    If that were actually true, there wouldn't be a obesity epidemic.
    - pvaldes 6y ago
      Well, humans are a little special. This is true. But we were talking about milk, not candy-filled people. So far as I know, neither science nor empiric observations of farmers all around the world had supported the idea that if let alone a calf will suck milk until exploding. Vet handbooks don't describe this hypothetical condition and such obesity epidemic of calf is not happening anywhere. Not much different than claiming that people left on a lakeshore will drink water until getting sick or dying, because there is to much water. Nope; this is not what we observe in the real life. Therefore the original claim is just new-age ideology without any scientific base.
- teh_klev 6y ago
  I think you're gonna need to back up that extraordinary claim with evidence.
  - soperj 6y ago
    Ask a dairy cattle farmer. That's where I heard it.

luckylion 6y ago

> I'm not an expert, but I don't believe they existed as we know them today until man took an active hand in selectively breeding them into the very useful animal they are today. I don't know either, but that feels counter-intuitive. Would ancient humans figure "hey, see that animal over there? I bet with a selective breeding program we could make it produce milk when it calves and we'd be able to drink that and get nutrients".

ur-whale 6y ago
I do remember reading a research article a long time ago saying that is precisely what happened with wheat (did not exist in the wild as we know it today, was bred over millenia into the flour-yielding plant we know today). It's not a long shot to imagine that animals like cows and goats (or dog, for that matter, although not with food as a goal) were given the same treatment.
- jiofih 6y ago
  Not a long shot at all - nearly every animal you encounter today is the result of domestication or human interaction, unless you go for a safari. Even pidgeons.
- jfim 6y ago
  Chickens have changed a lot in the last 50 years as well. This 2014 paper [0] compares the growth of chicken breeds from 1957, 1978, and 2005. The pictures of chickens at 56 days are pretty striking. [0] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579119385505?via=ihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S003257911...

soperj 6y ago

They don't. In fact they can't actually currently exist on their own. If a calf tried to feed off it's mother it would drown because the mothers produce far too much milk. They actually have to bottle feed the calves now.

pvaldes 6y ago
> If a calf tried to feed off it's mother it would drown because the mothers produce far too much milk. Yep, Isn't wonderful pseudoscience? It has all the answers and all are wrong and satisfactory. Animals -know- when they are satiated.
- soperj 6y ago
  If that were actually true, there wouldn't be a obesity epidemic.
  - pvaldes 6y ago
    Well, humans are a little special. This is true. But we were talking about milk, not candy-filled people. So far as I know, neither science nor empiric observations of farmers all around the world had supported the idea that if let alone a calf will suck milk until exploding. Vet handbooks don't describe this hypothetical condition and such obesity epidemic of calf is not happening anywhere. Not much different than claiming that people left on a lakeshore will drink water until getting sick or dying, because there is to much water. Nope; this is not what we observe in the real life. Therefore the original claim is just new-age ideology without any scientific base.
teh_klev 6y ago
I think you're gonna need to back up that extraordinary claim with evidence.
- soperj 6y ago
  Ask a dairy cattle farmer. That's where I heard it.