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I know someone who runs an Amazon last-mile delivery service. He bought the vans. He employs the drivers. Doesn't sound like the same thing as what FedEx was do

I know someone who runs an Amazon last-mile delivery service. He bought the vans. He employs the drivers. Doesn't sound like the same thing as what FedEx was doing.

toomuchtodo 6y ago
Same arrangement Fedex Ground had. The associate you mention is Amazon middle management in an arrangement meant to avoid employee classification. > The Ninth Circuit focused on FedEx’s control of the drivers despite the operating agreement referring to them as “independent contractors.” > “As a central part of its business, FedEx Ground Package System Inc. contracts with drivers to deliver packages to its customers,” the court wrote in its opinion. > “The drivers must wear FedEx uniforms, drive FedEx-approved vehicles and groom themselves according to FedEx’s appearance standards,” the opinion continues. “FedEx tells its drivers what packages to deliver, on what days, and at what times. Although drivers may operate multiple delivery routes and hire third parties to help perform their work, they may do so only with FedEx’s consent. FedEx contends its drivers are independent contractors under California law. Plaintiffs, a class of FedEx drivers in California, contend they are employees. We agree with plaintiffs.” > The court said the amount of control used by FedEx ranged from the dimensions of packing shelves on trucks to the appearance of drivers — down to their clothing choice of shoes and socks. It also said FedEx offers a “business support package” which provides drivers with uniforms, scanners and other equipment. The package is optional, but 99% of drivers purchase it, according to the court, and scanners drivers must use in package delivery are not readily available from other sources. This jives pretty closely with every Amazon driver I've spoken to. Amazon exerts too much control over the work being done for it not to be classified as an employee relationship, and their entire last mile experience for the customer depends on such control. Amazon is also responsible for designing the truck you must drive as an Amazon driver. IANAL, just making observations based on past legal precedent, current public policy, and anecdotes from Amazon workers I intentionally interact with to get ground truth.
varispeed 6y ago
If he has just one client, then definitely both sides are taking a mickey. Amazon because they don't have to buy vans, be involved in employment law, paying employer taxes etc. and the driver because likely they don't pay the same tax as if they were employed.

I know someone who runs an Amazon last-mile delivery service. He bought the vans. He employs the drivers. Doesn't sound like the same thing as what FedEx was doing.

toomuchtodo 6y ago

Same arrangement Fedex Ground had. The associate you mention is Amazon middle management in an arrangement meant to avoid employee classification. > The Ninth Circuit focused on FedEx’s control of the drivers despite the operating agreement referring to them as “independent contractors.” > “As a central part of its business, FedEx Ground Package System Inc. contracts with drivers to deliver packages to its customers,” the court wrote in its opinion. > “The drivers must wear FedEx uniforms, drive FedEx-approved vehicles and groom themselves according to FedEx’s appearance standards,” the opinion continues. “FedEx tells its drivers what packages to deliver, on what days, and at what times. Although drivers may operate multiple delivery routes and hire third parties to help perform their work, they may do so only with FedEx’s consent. FedEx contends its drivers are independent contractors under California law. Plaintiffs, a class of FedEx drivers in California, contend they are employees. We agree with plaintiffs.” > The court said the amount of control used by FedEx ranged from the dimensions of packing shelves on trucks to the appearance of drivers — down to their clothing choice of shoes and socks. It also said FedEx offers a “business support package” which provides drivers with uniforms, scanners and other equipment. The package is optional, but 99% of drivers purchase it, according to the court, and scanners drivers must use in package delivery are not readily available from other sources. This jives pretty closely with every Amazon driver I've spoken to. Amazon exerts too much control over the work being done for it not to be classified as an employee relationship, and their entire last mile experience for the customer depends on such control. Amazon is also responsible for designing the truck you must drive as an Amazon driver. IANAL, just making observations based on past legal precedent, current public policy, and anecdotes from Amazon workers I intentionally interact with to get ground truth.

varispeed 6y ago

If he has just one client, then definitely both sides are taking a mickey. Amazon because they don't have to buy vans, be involved in employment law, paying employer taxes etc. and the driver because likely they don't pay the same tax as if they were employed.