5 ms·
I, too, have an issue with people jumping on "RMS has transphobia" bandwagon without actually reading his words. He is argument boils down to, some languages h
by DiabloD3 6y ago
I, too, have an issue with people jumping on "RMS has transphobia" bandwagon without actually reading his words.
He is argument boils down to, some languages have four (or more) sets of pronouns: male, female, single and/or plural of people that is genderless (either explicitly or implicitly), singular and/or plural of inanimate object(s).
English has male, female, plural of people that is explicitly genderless (but not singular), and singular only of inanimate objects (but not plural). We don't have a pronoun that can fit a singular third gender or genderless reference. Using they as a singular pronoun in any situation often leads to awkward speech.
Other languages do other things, such as inanimate objects often being referred to with male or female pronouns (independent of having a singular inanimate pronouns), having both singular and plural inanimate object pronouns, or having singular genderless pronouns.
Adding additional words to English may be required to deal with people who do not wish to use male or female pronouns, but also do not wish to be called an it, or be forced to be called a they inappropriately (since they are not a plural, nor a royal we). Such words should appear similar to regular words, such words should be also standardized and regulated.
/End of RMS boiling down: at no point does he say trans people don't deserve pronouns that can fit their needs, he only illustrates that how we handle it now is not a good solution.
- joshuamorton 6y ago> English has male, female, plural of people that is explicitly genderless (but not singular), and singular only of inanimate objects (but not plural). We don't have a pronoun that can fit a singular third gender or genderless reference. Except that we do. Singular "they" has been used since Shakespeare. And you likely use singular they in your normal speech. When you don't know anything about a particular person, you ask about their attributes. Who they are and what they like, what their name is. > Adding additional words to English may be required to deal with people who do not wish to use male or female pronouns, but also do not wish to be called an it Indeed, and we generally do this by asking what those people want to be called, not by prescribing what they are allowed to be called. Prescriptivist language is both ineffective and rude, much as you trying to tell me what my name is is rude. That said, even if you're interested in prescriptivist approaches, Merriam-Webster[0], and the OED[1] recognize singular they, as do the APA, NYT, and WaPo style guides. Singular they, for a nonbinary person who prefers the pronoun, or for a person of unknown gender, is the standard. Stallman is the one causing needless conflict by trying to push a different approach when there already is a standard. [0]: https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/singular-nonbinary-they https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/singular-nonbi... [1]: https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they/ https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they...
- neolog 6y agoSounds like prescriptivism to me.
- cforrester 6y agoThey described what is presently the case, so that couldn't reasonably be considered prescriptivism.
- neolog 6y agoThere have been many genderless pronouns proposed over a long time. Declaring singular-they "standard" and then prescribing it despite the other options (and criticising the other options as nonstandard) is just the same old story. There are a bunch of reasons why people like different words, and telling them their choices are bad (read: nonconforming) is prescriptive.
- joshuamorton 6y agoPerhaps I should rephrase: they is a reasonable default. If someone doesn't prefer they, they'll tell you and then you should use what they prefer instead. Nowhere should you use "pers", unless someone specifically requests you use that pronoun for them. Stallman insisting other people use "pers" is bad and prescriptive. I would similarly say that neopronouns are nonstandard, but if someone asked me to use one, I would. I wouldn't insist on referring to them with "they", or "pers", once that person made their preference known. Suggesting stallman adopt already commonly used and widely accepted terminology and style is not. There is a confusion here that they can be used in two contexts: one for a person of unknown gender, and one for a person who prefers they/them pronouns. Stallman claims that they isn't acceptable in the first case (it is) and that "pers" should be prescribed in the second (it should not, you should use a person's preferred pronoun). (Note here again how singular they/them/their is naturally used in this context).
- neolog 6y ago
- thefz 6y agoCiting the letter: > RMS has spent years on a campaign against using people’s correct pronouns. This is poorly disguised transphobia. This is spread so thin just to allow it to reach another allegation of -phobia.
- doloto 6y ago>Adding additional words to English may be required Nope, nobody should bow to crazy people and their bullshit. You are either he or she. Period.