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This seems like FUD since the original complaint was informed by Facebook trying to prevent Apple’s privacy features going into affect. The active phrase is th

by zepto 6y ago

This seems like FUD since the original complaint was informed by Facebook trying to prevent Apple’s privacy features going into affect. The active phrase is that Apple ‘appears to be doing personalize advertising’ without first asking for permission. The interesting question is are they actually doing so or have the regulators just been told they are by Facebook? Last time this was discussed here, the consensus was that they aren’t doing targeted advertising - the only advertising they do being keyword based ads in the App Store.

sdoering 6y ago
I analysed tracking on the German version of the Apple Homepage. They really are the only ones I know of using Adobe Analytics in a purely session based way (no permanent user id). This way they don't need to ask the user for consent. I know of some bigger companies thinking about doing this. I strongly believe (and I don't actually like Apple very much) they are one of the few compliant to GDPR in the EU.
- soared 6y ago
  Apple's website has very little impact - they're talking about iOS.
  - dx034 6y ago
    Still, most websites (and especially ecommerce) are full of tracking to give Sales all data they could possibly want. That Apple restricts tracking here points towards a general restraint towards tracking.
- srg0 6y ago
  Are there other analytics packages which can operate in a purely session based way?
  - sdoering 6y ago
    Matomo praises the solution they use. But I haven't tried it yet. You can theoretically even implement it with Google Analytics.
rationalonly 6y ago
It's only FUD because Apple. No other company is allowed to use smoke and mirrors and be granted the benefit of doubt by it's customers. And it's extra concerning knowing Apple is constantly riddled with scandals with product quality, security, ethics, etc... Yet their marketing claims anything but.
- traceroute66 6y ago
  Nope. I smell FUD in the the topic under discussion. Apple have taken a consistently strong stance on privacy, why do you think Facebook have resorted to dirty tactics such as renting billboards and newspaper ads to spread FUD ? I also smell FUD in your post. You are one of those who likes to jump on the Apple bashing bandwagon whilst having no substantiated facts to back you up. You allege poor product quality ? I have been a long-term Mac user since the 80's. Either I am spectacularly lucky, but I have never encountered any scandalous product quality in any Apple desktop, laptop or phone that I have owned. Infact I've always found their quality to be top-notch compared to the litany of issues I've had with PC's over the years. Security ? Again FUD. By and large Apple do an excellent job on security, they do their best. Their overall track record remains better than Microsoft. Also my friend, cut the crap, we're all serious techies here on Ycombinator ... name me one technology company that has had zero security issues ? Even the cybersecurity vendors (who you would expect to be on top of their game) have all had their fair share of high-profile security issues. ;-)
  - slivanes 6y ago
    > You allege poor product quality ? Apple laptop butterfly keyboard failures - many years before they gave up on it. You may have heard of it. > Security ? MacOS root authentication bypass by using root and then hitting enter button with the password field empty. I don't think there's been a bigger authentication failure anywhere else? Apple products are pleasing to the eye, but there are pain points. Some users get very defensive of Apple, that can get pretty annoying.
    - twright0 6y ago
peteretep 6y ago
> are they actually doing so My read in the article is that they are using the "data on your device" to suggest apps you might want to install?
- zepto 6y ago
  Possible, if so it seems surprising that Apple would have any resistance to mentioning it in one of their many permission requesting dialogs.
- estaseuropano 6y ago
  How is that possible? Do apple servers send a list of >1Mio apps to the device and the device chooses among those? Or more likely the app builds some profile/preferences and tells those to the server so the server can choose what apps to propose?
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    I can imagine the servers sending the 100 most popular apps in each category or something.
  - Someone 6y ago
    Apple could know exactly which apps you have installed on each of your iOS devices. Regular users can only install through the App Store. That requires an Apple ID. Developers can only install using Apple provided tools that could send info to Apple (and if they don’t, that’s a rounding error, anyways) They certainly track, per account, what apps e@ch account ever downloaded (App Store — Account — Personalised Recommendations — Purchased Apps & Games, or directly via App Store — Purchased)
  - mtgx 6y ago
    We know Microsoft already does this in Windows 10. Google most likely does it, too, at least via that "Wellbeing" thing they have enabled by default.
boudin 6y ago
That's not what the article says. It's about that the user can opt-out of Apple personalized advertising instead of opt-in.
- zepto 6y ago
  You are making the same assumption the article does which is that Apple actually does personalized advertising. This is what is in question.

by zepto 6y ago

sdoering 6y ago

I analysed tracking on the German version of the Apple Homepage. They really are the only ones I know of using Adobe Analytics in a purely session based way (no permanent user id). This way they don't need to ask the user for consent. I know of some bigger companies thinking about doing this. I strongly believe (and I don't actually like Apple very much) they are one of the few compliant to GDPR in the EU.

soared 6y ago
Apple's website has very little impact - they're talking about iOS.
- dx034 6y ago
  Still, most websites (and especially ecommerce) are full of tracking to give Sales all data they could possibly want. That Apple restricts tracking here points towards a general restraint towards tracking.
srg0 6y ago
Are there other analytics packages which can operate in a purely session based way?
- sdoering 6y ago
  Matomo praises the solution they use. But I haven't tried it yet. You can theoretically even implement it with Google Analytics.

rationalonly 6y ago

It's only FUD because Apple. No other company is allowed to use smoke and mirrors and be granted the benefit of doubt by it's customers. And it's extra concerning knowing Apple is constantly riddled with scandals with product quality, security, ethics, etc... Yet their marketing claims anything but.

traceroute66 6y ago
Nope. I smell FUD in the the topic under discussion. Apple have taken a consistently strong stance on privacy, why do you think Facebook have resorted to dirty tactics such as renting billboards and newspaper ads to spread FUD ? I also smell FUD in your post. You are one of those who likes to jump on the Apple bashing bandwagon whilst having no substantiated facts to back you up. You allege poor product quality ? I have been a long-term Mac user since the 80's. Either I am spectacularly lucky, but I have never encountered any scandalous product quality in any Apple desktop, laptop or phone that I have owned. Infact I've always found their quality to be top-notch compared to the litany of issues I've had with PC's over the years. Security ? Again FUD. By and large Apple do an excellent job on security, they do their best. Their overall track record remains better than Microsoft. Also my friend, cut the crap, we're all serious techies here on Ycombinator ... name me one technology company that has had zero security issues ? Even the cybersecurity vendors (who you would expect to be on top of their game) have all had their fair share of high-profile security issues. ;-)
- slivanes 6y ago
  > You allege poor product quality ? Apple laptop butterfly keyboard failures - many years before they gave up on it. You may have heard of it. > Security ? MacOS root authentication bypass by using root and then hitting enter button with the password field empty. I don't think there's been a bigger authentication failure anywhere else? Apple products are pleasing to the eye, but there are pain points. Some users get very defensive of Apple, that can get pretty annoying.
  - twright0 6y ago

peteretep 6y ago

> are they actually doing so My read in the article is that they are using the "data on your device" to suggest apps you might want to install?

zepto 6y ago
Possible, if so it seems surprising that Apple would have any resistance to mentioning it in one of their many permission requesting dialogs.
estaseuropano 6y ago
How is that possible? Do apple servers send a list of >1Mio apps to the device and the device chooses among those? Or more likely the app builds some profile/preferences and tells those to the server so the server can choose what apps to propose?
- saagarjha 6y ago
  I can imagine the servers sending the 100 most popular apps in each category or something.
- Someone 6y ago
  Apple could know exactly which apps you have installed on each of your iOS devices. Regular users can only install through the App Store. That requires an Apple ID. Developers can only install using Apple provided tools that could send info to Apple (and if they don’t, that’s a rounding error, anyways) They certainly track, per account, what apps e@ch account ever downloaded (App Store — Account — Personalised Recommendations — Purchased Apps & Games, or directly via App Store — Purchased)
- mtgx 6y ago
  We know Microsoft already does this in Windows 10. Google most likely does it, too, at least via that "Wellbeing" thing they have enabled by default.

boudin 6y ago

That's not what the article says. It's about that the user can opt-out of Apple personalized advertising instead of opt-in.

zepto 6y ago
You are making the same assumption the article does which is that Apple actually does personalized advertising. This is what is in question.