7 ms·

Have you not ever met the guy? Yeesh.

uncledave 6y ago
I have. He’s less of an asshat than my father. At best my father got called a prick. We didn’t form a consortium of people to cancel him. That’s just batshit crazy.
- jcastro 6y ago
  Multiple decades of bad behavior, people are tired of it and don't want to work with him. You can't force people to work with someone who treats them like shit.
  - howeyc 6y ago
    Then go work at SFFSF (Stallman-Free Free Software Foundation), name not final. You aren't being force to interact with the FSF.
    - joshuamorton 6y ago
      That's essentially what's happening here. You have something like half the keynote speakers from LibreConf last week announcing that they will no longer participate in FSF events, and a bunch of community members supporting them.
      - thereddaikon 6y ago
        No that's not what's happening. What is happening is they are trying to force RMS and now the entire FSF board out of the community. That's not the same as refusing to work with someone.
        joshuamorton 6y ago
        Interesting, could you point out where in that letter these people are being forced out of the community? Alternatively, could you explain how you differentiate "we will not work with these people" and "forcing someone out of the community"? Like if enough people refuse to work with someone, doesn't that functionally force them out of the community? I see two demands: the FSF board step down, and Stallman remove himself from any leadership positions. This is functionally the same request as last time, to keep RMS out of leadership. I'm unaware of any significant backlash to him having been a speaker at LibreConf, so clearly he could still still be a community member.
        thereddaikon 6y ago
        How is demanding the entire FSF board step down not an attempt to force them out of the community? To refuse to work with them would take the form of "we refuse to work with the FSF moving forward" or something to that effect. They are not doing this. They are demanding people lose their jobs because they disagree with them. Take your blinders off and be rational.
    - jcastro 6y ago
      When someone is being fired you remove them from an organization, you don't give them the organization and tell everyone else to go find new jobs, especially since they're the ones doing all the work.
      - howeyc 6y ago
        What your talking about is as if Stallman had decided to layoff everyone who is "woke" after being hired. That's not even close to what is happening. Outsiders are asking the board to resign over a hiring decision.
        jcastro 6y ago
        They're not outsiders, they're the people doing the actual work of Free Software.
  - uncledave 6y ago
    No one has to work with anyone. Walk away. Edit: Wow the brigading in here is worse than Reddit at US sunrise.
  - tablespoon 6y ago
    > You can't force people to work with someone who treats them like shit. It's open source software written by volunteers, though. How many people are actually forced to work with RMS?
- untitaker_ 6y ago
  Was your father the president of something?
  - uncledave 6y ago
    Yes something fairly large and well known.
    - Y_Y 6y ago
      Was it a North American country, by any chance?
      - uncledave 6y ago
        Not that prick but he’s not far off it. Was a large trade association.
olalonde 6y ago
I agree that Stallman is probably not the best PR person for the FSF, but that's not what this is about. This is about canceling Stallman due to his "problematic opinions". It's a modern day witch hunt. Notice how all of the evidence against him[0] is just about his controversial opinions rather than his behavior. [0] https://rms-open-letter.github.io/appendix https://rms-open-letter.github.io/appendix
- untitaker_ 6y ago
  Stallman is the public face of the FSF, by him being in the position that he is in, everything he says is representative of what the FSF stands for. It is precisely about whether he is a good PR person.
  - olalonde 6y ago
    The open letter goes much further than that: > These sorts of beliefs have no place in the free software, digital rights, and tech communities. It's not: we need someone a bit less weird to be our PR person. It's: we need to cancel this person completely out of tech due to their "problematic opinions".
    - coolreader18 6y ago
      Have you looked at the appendix[0]? They seem a bit more than just "problematic". 2013: "There is little evidence to justify the widespread assumption that willing participation in pedophilia hurts children." 2015: "I wish an attractive woman had "abused" me that way when I was 14. I would have learned many important things and had a much happier life." 2016, on Down's syndrome: "If you'd like to love and care for a pet that doesn't have normal human mental capacity, don't create a handicapped human being to be your pet." 2017: "[..] together with the dishonest law that labels sex with adolescents as "rape" even if they are willing, [..]" To be honest, the parts on transphobia seem a bit overblown; he does seem to be accepting of different gender identities (and even plurality), but still doesn't like the use of they as a singular specific pronoun. However, I just really don't think it's necessary to re-admit someone with those ^ views to the board of an organization. [0]: https://rms-open-letter.github.io/appendix https://rms-open-letter.github.io/appendix
jsight 6y ago
I think that's a fair statement, but this letter calls for the removal of all FSF board members. Is that a fair response to RMS' opinions and behavior?
rubin55 6y ago
I actually did meet Stallman on a few occasions. In all cases he was a kind and generally awesome human being: * 2000's, Linux Conference in San Francisco / Silicon Valley, I asked him about porting some app from LibC5 to GlibC6, I bought the GNU LibC manuals there. I imagine he was more confused than me about my newbie questions, but he patiently heard me out and gave me some valuable insights. * 2010-2016ish, FOSDEM conferences in Brussels. Attended multiple talks of him about FOSS. Edit: Small spelling fixes and clarifications here and there.

I have. He’s less of an asshat than my father. At best my father got called a prick. We didn’t form a consortium of people to cancel him. That’s just batshit crazy.

jcastro 6y ago
Multiple decades of bad behavior, people are tired of it and don't want to work with him. You can't force people to work with someone who treats them like shit.
- howeyc 6y ago
  Then go work at SFFSF (Stallman-Free Free Software Foundation), name not final. You aren't being force to interact with the FSF.
  - joshuamorton 6y ago
    That's essentially what's happening here. You have something like half the keynote speakers from LibreConf last week announcing that they will no longer participate in FSF events, and a bunch of community members supporting them.
    - thereddaikon 6y ago
      No that's not what's happening. What is happening is they are trying to force RMS and now the entire FSF board out of the community. That's not the same as refusing to work with someone.
      - joshuamorton 6y ago
        Interesting, could you point out where in that letter these people are being forced out of the community? Alternatively, could you explain how you differentiate "we will not work with these people" and "forcing someone out of the community"? Like if enough people refuse to work with someone, doesn't that functionally force them out of the community? I see two demands: the FSF board step down, and Stallman remove himself from any leadership positions. This is functionally the same request as last time, to keep RMS out of leadership. I'm unaware of any significant backlash to him having been a speaker at LibreConf, so clearly he could still still be a community member.
        thereddaikon 6y ago
        How is demanding the entire FSF board step down not an attempt to force them out of the community? To refuse to work with them would take the form of "we refuse to work with the FSF moving forward" or something to that effect. They are not doing this. They are demanding people lose their jobs because they disagree with them. Take your blinders off and be rational.
  - jcastro 6y ago
    When someone is being fired you remove them from an organization, you don't give them the organization and tell everyone else to go find new jobs, especially since they're the ones doing all the work.
    - howeyc 6y ago
      What your talking about is as if Stallman had decided to layoff everyone who is "woke" after being hired. That's not even close to what is happening. Outsiders are asking the board to resign over a hiring decision.
      - jcastro 6y ago
        They're not outsiders, they're the people doing the actual work of Free Software.
- uncledave 6y ago
  No one has to work with anyone. Walk away. Edit: Wow the brigading in here is worse than Reddit at US sunrise.
- tablespoon 6y ago
  > You can't force people to work with someone who treats them like shit. It's open source software written by volunteers, though. How many people are actually forced to work with RMS?
untitaker_ 6y ago
Was your father the president of something?
- uncledave 6y ago
  Yes something fairly large and well known.
  - Y_Y 6y ago
    Was it a North American country, by any chance?
    - uncledave 6y ago
      Not that prick but he’s not far off it. Was a large trade association.

olalonde 6y ago

I agree that Stallman is probably not the best PR person for the FSF, but that's not what this is about. This is about canceling Stallman due to his "problematic opinions". It's a modern day witch hunt. Notice how all of the evidence against him[0] is just about his controversial opinions rather than his behavior. [0] https://rms-open-letter.github.io/appendix https://rms-open-letter.github.io/appendix

untitaker_ 6y ago
Stallman is the public face of the FSF, by him being in the position that he is in, everything he says is representative of what the FSF stands for. It is precisely about whether he is a good PR person.
- olalonde 6y ago
  The open letter goes much further than that: > These sorts of beliefs have no place in the free software, digital rights, and tech communities. It's not: we need someone a bit less weird to be our PR person. It's: we need to cancel this person completely out of tech due to their "problematic opinions".
  - coolreader18 6y ago
    Have you looked at the appendix[0]? They seem a bit more than just "problematic". 2013: "There is little evidence to justify the widespread assumption that willing participation in pedophilia hurts children." 2015: "I wish an attractive woman had "abused" me that way when I was 14. I would have learned many important things and had a much happier life." 2016, on Down's syndrome: "If you'd like to love and care for a pet that doesn't have normal human mental capacity, don't create a handicapped human being to be your pet." 2017: "[..] together with the dishonest law that labels sex with adolescents as "rape" even if they are willing, [..]" To be honest, the parts on transphobia seem a bit overblown; he does seem to be accepting of different gender identities (and even plurality), but still doesn't like the use of they as a singular specific pronoun. However, I just really don't think it's necessary to re-admit someone with those ^ views to the board of an organization. [0]: https://rms-open-letter.github.io/appendix https://rms-open-letter.github.io/appendix

jsight 6y ago

I think that's a fair statement, but this letter calls for the removal of all FSF board members. Is that a fair response to RMS' opinions and behavior?

rubin55 6y ago

I actually did meet Stallman on a few occasions. In all cases he was a kind and generally awesome human being: * 2000's, Linux Conference in San Francisco / Silicon Valley, I asked him about porting some app from LibC5 to GlibC6, I bought the GNU LibC manuals there. I imagine he was more confused than me about my newbie questions, but he patiently heard me out and gave me some valuable insights. * 2010-2016ish, FOSDEM conferences in Brussels. Attended multiple talks of him about FOSS. Edit: Small spelling fixes and clarifications here and there.