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Why isn't Saudi Arabia afraid of US sanctions? Biden should do something.

by aritmo 6y ago

sunstone 6y ago
I believe you are underestimating the importance of Biden refusing to speak with the Crown Prince as he called world leaders as his term began. It might seem just symbolic but it's much more than that.
- rurp 6y ago
  Can you elaborate on that? I'm not doubting you, It's just not obvious to me why it's a big deal rather than a token gesture.
- recuter 6y ago
  Yeah, it is Biden pandering to a domestic audience who will forget all about this in a few years. The spice must flow.
  - mercutio2 6y ago
    What spice? The US is a net exporter of oil, these days.
    - pengaru 6y ago
      If the spice doesn't flow, Saudi Arabia can't afford US weapons. Also the oil dependency graph can change during resource-intensive conflicts.
      - ic0n0cl4st 6y ago
        I always thought of America as the Harkonnens, but now that you said it I realize that we are the Imperium, OPEC is CHOAM and Saudi Arabia are the Harkonnens.
    - colpabar 6y ago
      It's a reference to the 1984 movie Dune. I don't remember the exact details, but it's very similar to oil, in that it's a valuable natural resource that different factions go to war over.
      - tialaramex 6y ago
        The fictional Spice (Melange) is used by ordinary rich people to live longer. More importantly since their culture has rejected the use of AI they use much larger amounts of Spice to give the Guild Navigators sufficient foresight to be able to pilot Highliners through space-time, enabling the empire to cover a number of star systems.
        teddyh 6y ago
        Note: It’s “Heighliner”, not “Highliner”.
      - etiam 6y ago
        Or a reference to the 1965 novel Dune, if you're lucky.
      - mercutio2 6y ago
        Given that the phrase doesn't appear anywhere in Frank Herbert's novels (the horrible dumpster fires by his son may have it, but I couldn't say), it's certainly a Lynch reference. But my question wasn't what "spice" means, I assumed everyone on Hacker News knows that. I was asking why Saudi spice is particularly relevant to US interests, when we're a net exporter of said spice. It was admittedly a bit tongue in cheek; dramatically reduced Saudi supplies would impact energy markets in a bunch of second and third order ways we might not like. But that doesn't mean we have to keep selling them guns.
  - rhizome 6y ago
    It's been almost a few years already, which few were you thinking of?
- rhizome 6y ago
  And with England you call the Queen, not William.
alexilliamson 6y ago
The Saudi government bankrolled 9/11 without consequences. Seems logical to not expect consequences now.
ska 6y ago
> Why isn't Saudi Arabia afraid of US sanctions? Because of lots of historical precedent that the US values it's relationship with SA over any principled objection to bad behavior on the part of SA? Obviously there are lines that couldn't be crossed, but SA believes this murder wasn't one of them.
- ketamine__ 6y ago
  Bezos was good buddies with MBS and then changed his mind. Seems like others could as well.
  - ketamine__ 6y ago
    Posting about Bezos and MBS's relationship really triggers Amazon workers I suppose. Nothing like working for a homophobe in-waiting.
pjc50 6y ago
Baby steps: they're withdrawing support for the war in Yemen. https://www.defensenews.com/news/your-military/2021/02/04/us-ends-support-for-saudi-led-war-in-yemen/ https://www.defensenews.com/news/your-military/2021/02/04/us...
- rossdavidh 6y ago
  Which has, in fact, resulted in a change in S.A.'s tune on the war, at least to the point of offering a cease fire. Baby steps, indeed.
rossdavidh 6y ago
1) Biden has not caused a dramatic rupture in relations with S.A., but he has backed things off a bit (e.g. officially distancing from war in Yemen). 2) The literal answer is that the U.S. never bought anything much from S.A. except oil, and that pretty much ended after fracking made the U.S. a net exporter. 3) If S.A. actually executed a UN official from a NATO country, it might result in a lot more. 4) Given the state of the U.S. economy, and the nearly-civil-war level of polarization, I don't think Biden is looking for an excuse to get into foreign policy projects right now. We have enough trouble running our own country.

Why isn't Saudi Arabia afraid of US sanctions? Biden should do something.

by aritmo 6y ago

Why isn't Saudi Arabia afraid of US sanctions? Biden should do something.

I believe you are underestimating the importance of Biden refusing to speak with the Crown Prince as he called world leaders as his term began. It might seem just symbolic but it's much more than that.

rurp 6y ago
Can you elaborate on that? I'm not doubting you, It's just not obvious to me why it's a big deal rather than a token gesture.
recuter 6y ago
Yeah, it is Biden pandering to a domestic audience who will forget all about this in a few years. The spice must flow.
- mercutio2 6y ago
  What spice? The US is a net exporter of oil, these days.
  - pengaru 6y ago
    If the spice doesn't flow, Saudi Arabia can't afford US weapons. Also the oil dependency graph can change during resource-intensive conflicts.
    - ic0n0cl4st 6y ago
      I always thought of America as the Harkonnens, but now that you said it I realize that we are the Imperium, OPEC is CHOAM and Saudi Arabia are the Harkonnens.
  - colpabar 6y ago
    It's a reference to the 1984 movie Dune. I don't remember the exact details, but it's very similar to oil, in that it's a valuable natural resource that different factions go to war over.
    - tialaramex 6y ago
      The fictional Spice (Melange) is used by ordinary rich people to live longer. More importantly since their culture has rejected the use of AI they use much larger amounts of Spice to give the Guild Navigators sufficient foresight to be able to pilot Highliners through space-time, enabling the empire to cover a number of star systems.
      - teddyh 6y ago
        Note: It’s “Heighliner”, not “Highliner”.
    - etiam 6y ago
      Or a reference to the 1965 novel Dune, if you're lucky.
    - mercutio2 6y ago
      Given that the phrase doesn't appear anywhere in Frank Herbert's novels (the horrible dumpster fires by his son may have it, but I couldn't say), it's certainly a Lynch reference. But my question wasn't what "spice" means, I assumed everyone on Hacker News knows that. I was asking why Saudi spice is particularly relevant to US interests, when we're a net exporter of said spice. It was admittedly a bit tongue in cheek; dramatically reduced Saudi supplies would impact energy markets in a bunch of second and third order ways we might not like. But that doesn't mean we have to keep selling them guns.
- rhizome 6y ago
  It's been almost a few years already, which few were you thinking of?
rhizome 6y ago
And with England you call the Queen, not William.

alexilliamson 6y ago

The Saudi government bankrolled 9/11 without consequences. Seems logical to not expect consequences now.

ska 6y ago

> Why isn't Saudi Arabia afraid of US sanctions? Because of lots of historical precedent that the US values it's relationship with SA over any principled objection to bad behavior on the part of SA? Obviously there are lines that couldn't be crossed, but SA believes this murder wasn't one of them.

ketamine__ 6y ago
Bezos was good buddies with MBS and then changed his mind. Seems like others could as well.
- ketamine__ 6y ago
  Posting about Bezos and MBS's relationship really triggers Amazon workers I suppose. Nothing like working for a homophobe in-waiting.

pjc50 6y ago

Baby steps: they're withdrawing support for the war in Yemen. https://www.defensenews.com/news/your-military/2021/02/04/us-ends-support-for-saudi-led-war-in-yemen/ https://www.defensenews.com/news/your-military/2021/02/04/us...

rossdavidh 6y ago
Which has, in fact, resulted in a change in S.A.'s tune on the war, at least to the point of offering a cease fire. Baby steps, indeed.

rossdavidh 6y ago

1) Biden has not caused a dramatic rupture in relations with S.A., but he has backed things off a bit (e.g. officially distancing from war in Yemen). 2) The literal answer is that the U.S. never bought anything much from S.A. except oil, and that pretty much ended after fracking made the U.S. a net exporter. 3) If S.A. actually executed a UN official from a NATO country, it might result in a lot more. 4) Given the state of the U.S. economy, and the nearly-civil-war level of polarization, I don't think Biden is looking for an excuse to get into foreign policy projects right now. We have enough trouble running our own country.