4 ms·

Sure, Unix and Linux are worse than Plan 9, but I don't think that's the reason why they are more popular.

haolez 6y ago
That's not the point of Worse is Better. The point is that, in this context, Unix and Linux are better than Plan 9, but for non-intuitive reasons.
- discreteevent 6y ago
  Worse is better is just annoying. Better at what? Domino's pizza is better at market share. It's not better at making good pizza. Most people can agree with these two statements. But just saying "Domino's is proof that worse is better" causes unnecessary arguments
  - samatman 6y ago
    Pizza has weak network effects. The capitalization, brand recognition, and streamlined corporate franchise structure, cooperate to make it easier to launch and run a Domino's franchise, than to start a pizza joint from scratch. But not that much easier. There is plenty of room to market better pizza for more money. Computer systems tend to have strong network effects, there's a lot to learn and a skilled developer is, ceteris paribus, more productive than a greenhorn. Most of the value in operating systems and programming languages is in the ecosystem rather than the core. Worse is better isn't a universal solvent, there are plenty of areas where it isn't applicable. The original essay† is about why C and Unix were eating Lisp's lunch, and is worth reading. † https://www.dreamsongs.com/Files/LispGoodNewsBadNews.pdf https://www.dreamsongs.com/Files/LispGoodNewsBadNews.pdf
    - discreteevent 6y ago
      Sure. So to qualify what you are saying: C is better at achieving broad usage. But it is not better than Zig for writing secure software. It is not better than perl for text processing.
- nix23 6y ago
  Better for what?
  - haolez 6y ago
    Better for the industry as a whole. It generated more value so far.
    - nix23 6y ago
      >It generated more value so far. That's a really bad and wrong comparison. By your measurements Microsoft, Apple and Oracle is the best the industry ever had.
      - haolez 6y ago
        But they are! Or were! Maybe they will not be for the (moral?) standards of the next decade, though.
        nix23 6y ago
        So the product that makes more money is the better one?
        haolez 6y ago
        Come on :) We are getting into philosophy territory here. You know what I mean and in which context.

That's not the point of Worse is Better. The point is that, in this context, Unix and Linux are better than Plan 9, but for non-intuitive reasons.

discreteevent 6y ago
Worse is better is just annoying. Better at what? Domino's pizza is better at market share. It's not better at making good pizza. Most people can agree with these two statements. But just saying "Domino's is proof that worse is better" causes unnecessary arguments
- samatman 6y ago
  Pizza has weak network effects. The capitalization, brand recognition, and streamlined corporate franchise structure, cooperate to make it easier to launch and run a Domino's franchise, than to start a pizza joint from scratch. But not that much easier. There is plenty of room to market better pizza for more money. Computer systems tend to have strong network effects, there's a lot to learn and a skilled developer is, ceteris paribus, more productive than a greenhorn. Most of the value in operating systems and programming languages is in the ecosystem rather than the core. Worse is better isn't a universal solvent, there are plenty of areas where it isn't applicable. The original essay† is about why C and Unix were eating Lisp's lunch, and is worth reading. † https://www.dreamsongs.com/Files/LispGoodNewsBadNews.pdf https://www.dreamsongs.com/Files/LispGoodNewsBadNews.pdf
  - discreteevent 6y ago
    Sure. So to qualify what you are saying: C is better at achieving broad usage. But it is not better than Zig for writing secure software. It is not better than perl for text processing.
nix23 6y ago
Better for what?
- haolez 6y ago
  Better for the industry as a whole. It generated more value so far.
  - nix23 6y ago
    >It generated more value so far. That's a really bad and wrong comparison. By your measurements Microsoft, Apple and Oracle is the best the industry ever had.
    - haolez 6y ago
      But they are! Or were! Maybe they will not be for the (moral?) standards of the next decade, though.
      - nix23 6y ago
        So the product that makes more money is the better one?
        haolez 6y ago
        Come on :) We are getting into philosophy territory here. You know what I mean and in which context.