3 ms·

What I'm hearing is that public places are not nice because not everyone treats them the way rich people treat public spaces. You list a bunch of complaints th

What I'm hearing is that public places are not nice because not everyone treats them the way rich people treat public spaces. You list a bunch of complaints that seem reasonable individually but taken together basically boil down to complaining about the difference between rich and poor then end with a comment about how it might fix itself if everyone were better off (which seems uncomfortably close to "if we got rid of the poors"). Indeed many problems would be solved with money but the primary difference between your sentiment and the kind of sentiments that result in the authoritarian programs that are the subject of TFA is the willingness to use the jackboot as a means to bring about the end you desire. There's a fine line between preventing the park from turning into a homeless camp and using the police to systematically people for smoking weed at the park.

closeparen 6y ago
And then activists turn around and complain that the rich are always cloistering themselves in private spaces, there’s no shared public space anymore. What did they think would happen? Rich families would actually bring their 4-year-olds to play among the tents and the smoke? Either we get a set of norms that allow people from different walks of life to coexist in the same spaces, or we wind up segregated.
sershe 6y ago
Only a few things in GP are specific to poor; in fact some e.g. out-of-control children are more typical of the rich. Unless if course you are saying poor are the ones getting into fights or doing the unsolicited selling, in which case yes, enforce the rules and remove them regardless of their finances. "Complaints that seem reasonable individually" are still reasonable together, in fact much more important taken together. I don't like loud children, but I can put up with that. I can put up with loud music. I can put up with walking past a tent or two, maybe even with a fight nearby if I feel it's not going to spill over. At some point though, the threshold is crossed and I don't want to put up with these anymore. As far as fights, drugs, etc. I don't think the public has "degraded"; the root of the problem, I believe, is lack of enforcement of the rules. First, that allows shitty people (I don't care if they are poor or not) to get away with shitty things in the first place. Second, it has a cascading effect where such behavior is normalized. Third, it clearly communicates to everyone else that they are on their own when this kind of stuff happens. The logical response is to move away.

closeparen 6y ago

And then activists turn around and complain that the rich are always cloistering themselves in private spaces, there’s no shared public space anymore. What did they think would happen? Rich families would actually bring their 4-year-olds to play among the tents and the smoke? Either we get a set of norms that allow people from different walks of life to coexist in the same spaces, or we wind up segregated.

sershe 6y ago

Only a few things in GP are specific to poor; in fact some e.g. out-of-control children are more typical of the rich. Unless if course you are saying poor are the ones getting into fights or doing the unsolicited selling, in which case yes, enforce the rules and remove them regardless of their finances. "Complaints that seem reasonable individually" are still reasonable together, in fact much more important taken together. I don't like loud children, but I can put up with that. I can put up with loud music. I can put up with walking past a tent or two, maybe even with a fight nearby if I feel it's not going to spill over. At some point though, the threshold is crossed and I don't want to put up with these anymore. As far as fights, drugs, etc. I don't think the public has "degraded"; the root of the problem, I believe, is lack of enforcement of the rules. First, that allows shitty people (I don't care if they are poor or not) to get away with shitty things in the first place. Second, it has a cascading effect where such behavior is normalized. Third, it clearly communicates to everyone else that they are on their own when this kind of stuff happens. The logical response is to move away.