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You might have been downvoted for conflating gay and trans concerns as though they are the same. From what I've observed there are genuine conflicts between tho
by esja 6y ago
You might have been downvoted for conflating gay and trans concerns as though they are the same. From what I've observed there are genuine conflicts between those communities and discussion is necessary to resolve them - it's not automatically "criticism".
For example quite a few of the "gender critical" people being referred to here are actually lesbians, and they've been accused of hate or transphobia because they loudly refuse to adjust their sexual preferences to include males who identify as women. It's impossible to satisfy both gay and trans people on this specific topic.
- csunbird 6y agoForcing anyone to change their sexual preferences because of social justice is plain wrong.
- esja 6y agoOf course. And being accused of hate or shamed for not wanting to change your sexual preference is deeply regressive.
- morelisp 6y agoWeird how the gender critical community comes out of the shattered remains of the political lesbian community who wanted to do exactly that.
- debacle 6y agoFor my own edification, is "political lesbian" a single term? Is there a special definition there? Thanks.
- afuchs 6y agoThere was/is a subset of radical feminism that saw heterosexuality as something that perpetuated patriarchal oppression [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_feminism#Radical_lesbian_feminism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_feminism#Radical_lesbi...
- debacle 6y agoThank you for the link.
- stonecraftwolf 6y agoNo. Don’t claim to speak for lesbians when there are actual lesbians here. (Hi! You don’t know what you’re talking about.) This is the propaganda bigoted lesbians spread in order to cast themselves as the victims. This is a classic abuser tactic. Nobody is forced or compelled to be attracted to anyone, and nobody believes that should be the case. If you make blanket statements like “I’m not attracted to people of X group,” you likely have some unexamined prejudice — you have not met all people of that group, and you have made a bunch of prejudicial assumptions about them. But your own language betrays you. No one who has respect for trans people refers to trans women as “males who identify as women.” You’re not engaging here in good faith.
- zozbot234 6y ago> If you make blanket statements like “I’m not attracted to people of X group,” you likely have some unexamined prejudice Does that also apply when the group is men/women (as opposed to AMAB/AFAB folks which would be the 'gender critical' view)? Should we all be pansexual?
- stonecraftwolf 6y agoSo these are typically not conversations that queer people have outside of queer circles, because people like you cannot be trusted to engage in good faith or in a way that respects us as people, and your attempt to rules lawyer the complexities of human attraction and identity as though it’s some fun intellectual exercise for you (when for us it is often life or death) is evidence of why. Anyway, it is incredibly disingenuous to imply that there is an equivalence between sexual orientation and the loud proclamation that one could never date anyone trans given that it is often impossible to physically distinguish between cis and trans people after medical transition. Those people don’t have a problem with their orientation, they have a problem with trans people.
- zozbot234 6y agoWhat about lesbians who are concerned that some AMAB folks in their community might simply objectify them sexually, in a way that others would be a lot less likely to? Doesn't that seem like a good reason to be a bit warier when interacting with some group of people?