5 ms·

Agnès Callamard is a French citizen. What would be likely to happen if said threat were carried out?

ipsocannibal 6y ago
It depends on how much France depends on its economic and military ties to the kingdom. France exports a large amount of arms to Saudi and trains some of its army. I imagine this would be covered up Trump admin style to keep the money flowing. https://saudileaks.org/en/protests/ https://saudileaks.org/en/protests/ Edit: Here are the links referring to the Trump admin actions. The Trump admin basically towed the line that MBS had nothing to do with the Khashoggi murder even though they knew that to be a lie and then rushed an arms sale to the Saudis as an emergency. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-jamal-khashoggi-saudi-mbs-b1808332.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic... https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/saudi-arabia-arms-deal-trump-what-to-know/ https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/saudi-arabia-arms...
- lostlogin 6y ago
  I disagree. The standard response is hand wringing about what one could possibly do, a reminder of the jobs that are at stake and then carrying on as normal. That’s what Trump did and I’m not aware of any cover up around this murder from his administration. Have you got a link? “Mike Pompeo has backed his president, saying after talks with Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu that "it's a mean, nasty world out there".” https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46283355 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46283355
  - colpabar 6y ago
    >The standard response is hand wringing about what one could possibly do, a reminder of the jobs that are at stake and then carrying on as normal. Yep. Just like the world's response to the genocide going on in China.
    - lostlogin 6y ago
      The downvotes will be due to your comment’s lack of relevance. There is a small connection though - Trump himself noted that America refusing to trade with Saudi would just lead to more trade with China and Russia. My above comment has a BBC link which notes this. "If we foolishly cancel these contracts, Russia and China would be the enormous beneficiaries,"
    - ipsocannibal 6y ago
      Sanctions != hand-wringing in my opinion but its still not enough to counter what on its face moves closer and closer to becoming Holocaust 2. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-eu-sanctions/west-sanctions-china-over-xinjiang-abuses-beijing-hits-back-at-eu-idUSKBN2BE2MC https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-eu-sanctions/we...
nabla9 6y ago
[i was wrong]
- neartheplain 6y ago
  Jamal Khashoggi was not a US citizen, though he did hold a Green Card as a lawful permanent resident. https://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/lake-county-news-sun/ct-lns-talk-of-the-county-st-1205-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/lake-county-news-sun/...
ceejayoz 6y ago
If past French actions are any guide, not much. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior
- whimsicalism 6y ago
  Europe in general doesn't really punish intelligence actions of allies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillehammer_affair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillehammer_affair
  - sofixa 6y ago
    The Mossad agents in question were imprisoned, so it was something, and Saudi Arabia really isn't an ally to any European country.
    - whimsicalism 6y ago
      > The Mossad agents in question were imprisoned, I mean, they were all released within 18 months. And France is definitely an ally of SA, and the third largest seller of weaponry to SA after US & UK.
- 13415 6y ago
  That was a French intelligence action on foreign soil, so it really can't tell you much about France's willingness to retaliate against foreign intelligence actions against their own citizens.
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    I'm suggesting the nation that carries out terror attacks on non-belligerent nations should probably sit this one out.
    - PoignardAzur 6y ago
      Excuse you? Every industrialized country does black ops. France just happened to get caught, once, 35 years ago, and has been paying reparations ever since. Saying it's "the nation that carries out terror attacks" from this is extremely dishonest, especially when compared to other world powers (hello US).
sgt101 6y ago
I think that they would take exemplary action in this case. The Saudi's don't have as much leverage as they think they do. Pretty soon they are going to have none, if the French allowed this to go unpunished (and the punishment would have to be striking and humiliating) then it would be open season. If I were Macron I'd hit Saudi oil facilities up and down the country. What are those fancy subs and cruise missiles for?
IAmEveryone 6y ago
A breakdown in EU- and, possibly, US/Saudi relations. Unlike dealings with, say, Iran, any measured would likely to be targeted more directly at MBS and individuals in positions in power, who would see themselves added to various sanction list. These measures would likely pack some punch, as it is very common for Saudis with means to both do business as well as spend time/get medical care/send their kids to school in the west. This would point at a possible future resolution, which would see MBS removed from power and some more reasonable person from the family taking over.

It depends on how much France depends on its economic and military ties to the kingdom. France exports a large amount of arms to Saudi and trains some of its army. I imagine this would be covered up Trump admin style to keep the money flowing. https://saudileaks.org/en/protests/ https://saudileaks.org/en/protests/ Edit: Here are the links referring to the Trump admin actions. The Trump admin basically towed the line that MBS had nothing to do with the Khashoggi murder even though they knew that to be a lie and then rushed an arms sale to the Saudis as an emergency. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-jamal-khashoggi-saudi-mbs-b1808332.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic... https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/saudi-arabia-arms-deal-trump-what-to-know/ https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/saudi-arabia-arms...

lostlogin 6y ago
I disagree. The standard response is hand wringing about what one could possibly do, a reminder of the jobs that are at stake and then carrying on as normal. That’s what Trump did and I’m not aware of any cover up around this murder from his administration. Have you got a link? “Mike Pompeo has backed his president, saying after talks with Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu that "it's a mean, nasty world out there".” https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46283355 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46283355
- colpabar 6y ago
  >The standard response is hand wringing about what one could possibly do, a reminder of the jobs that are at stake and then carrying on as normal. Yep. Just like the world's response to the genocide going on in China.
  - lostlogin 6y ago
    The downvotes will be due to your comment’s lack of relevance. There is a small connection though - Trump himself noted that America refusing to trade with Saudi would just lead to more trade with China and Russia. My above comment has a BBC link which notes this. "If we foolishly cancel these contracts, Russia and China would be the enormous beneficiaries,"
  - ipsocannibal 6y ago
    Sanctions != hand-wringing in my opinion but its still not enough to counter what on its face moves closer and closer to becoming Holocaust 2. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-eu-sanctions/west-sanctions-china-over-xinjiang-abuses-beijing-hits-back-at-eu-idUSKBN2BE2MC https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-eu-sanctions/we...

nabla9 6y ago

[i was wrong]

neartheplain 6y ago
Jamal Khashoggi was not a US citizen, though he did hold a Green Card as a lawful permanent resident. https://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/lake-county-news-sun/ct-lns-talk-of-the-county-st-1205-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/lake-county-news-sun/...

ceejayoz 6y ago

If past French actions are any guide, not much. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior

whimsicalism 6y ago
Europe in general doesn't really punish intelligence actions of allies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillehammer_affair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillehammer_affair
- sofixa 6y ago
  The Mossad agents in question were imprisoned, so it was something, and Saudi Arabia really isn't an ally to any European country.
  - whimsicalism 6y ago
    > The Mossad agents in question were imprisoned, I mean, they were all released within 18 months. And France is definitely an ally of SA, and the third largest seller of weaponry to SA after US & UK.
13415 6y ago
That was a French intelligence action on foreign soil, so it really can't tell you much about France's willingness to retaliate against foreign intelligence actions against their own citizens.
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  I'm suggesting the nation that carries out terror attacks on non-belligerent nations should probably sit this one out.
  - PoignardAzur 6y ago
    Excuse you? Every industrialized country does black ops. France just happened to get caught, once, 35 years ago, and has been paying reparations ever since. Saying it's "the nation that carries out terror attacks" from this is extremely dishonest, especially when compared to other world powers (hello US).

sgt101 6y ago

I think that they would take exemplary action in this case. The Saudi's don't have as much leverage as they think they do. Pretty soon they are going to have none, if the French allowed this to go unpunished (and the punishment would have to be striking and humiliating) then it would be open season. If I were Macron I'd hit Saudi oil facilities up and down the country. What are those fancy subs and cruise missiles for?

IAmEveryone 6y ago

A breakdown in EU- and, possibly, US/Saudi relations. Unlike dealings with, say, Iran, any measured would likely to be targeted more directly at MBS and individuals in positions in power, who would see themselves added to various sanction list. These measures would likely pack some punch, as it is very common for Saudis with means to both do business as well as spend time/get medical care/send their kids to school in the west. This would point at a possible future resolution, which would see MBS removed from power and some more reasonable person from the family taking over.