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This is great and all. Unless you travel a lot. Or have a wide network of far flung friends and family to keep up with. Or have niche hobbies and interests. Or

This is great and all. Unless you travel a lot. Or have a wide network of far flung friends and family to keep up with. Or have niche hobbies and interests. Or are looking for a new job. Or just generally like to keep up with modern trends and culture. But yeah, sure, sounds great for the tiny number of people who don't require any of the above.

PenguinCoder 6y ago
Two things I _need_ and get from a smart phone that I can't get from a dumbphone - GOOD GPS/Maps, and NFC/contactless payment.
- tayo42 6y ago
  I would include a camera too. I don't really want to carry a dslr, i like that google photos are pretty much synced and backed up. It not fun for me to run some crappy data back up thing. I like taking pictures, i like looking back on them. I use them for painting inspiration too. I don't really need to be a photographer though with a dslr or whatever is cool now
- grillvogel 6y ago
  you could get a gshock watch with GPS, and don't most credit cards have NFC options now?
  - PenguinCoder 6y ago
    I forget my wallet a lot, but I don't forget my phone. Or, if I'm already pulling out the wallet for the card, miswell use the card.
mixmastamyk 6y ago
All my job searches have been organized over email, and the poster said no smartphone, not no phone. Exaggerating a bit?
jc_811 6y ago
I don't think you need a smartphone and social media to do any of the above listed tasks. The author's qualm isn't with having an online presence, or being tapped into modern society, it's having that modern society constantly tapping you on the shoulder with a bombardment of notifications and algorithms designed specifically to get you hooked. I think you can easily travel, have a wide network of far flung friends, be involved in niche hobbies, look for a new job, and keep up with modern trends & cultures - all without a smart phone and social media. If you have a laptop & internet connection - you're good to go! This allows you to tap in when you want on your own terms instead of the other way around.
- standardUser 6y ago
  I found a great website recently by a man who collects crayons. A niche activity if there ever was one. Want to be part of that community? It exists only on Facebook. I moved abroad a couple years ago and needed a way to get involved with the local ex-pat community. One guess where all of their organizing and communicating was done. Want to bootstrap a home business, like so many mask-makers have done during the pandemic? How do you get your initial traction without friends and family on the social media networks? If people want to opt out of the modern world that's fine, but let's not pretend they aren't missing out.
  - Nextgrid 6y ago
    Even more reasons why anti-trust action against social media monopolies and laws like the GDPR are important. You might not be able to "beat" Facebook, but at least regulation will tone down its scumminess and make it slightly more tolerable.
    - nicbou 6y ago
      You could argue that without a free, simple platform and its audience, such websites wouldn't exist in such large numbers. Not everyone has the patience to run a website.
Barrin92 6y ago
>But yeah, sure, sounds great for the tiny number of people who don't require any of the above. Most people actually need none of that stuff. I think there's a lot of illusions that come with social media. Having 500 Facebook friends you chat with two times per year is not friendship in a real sense of the term. What many people are looking for arguably these days and what has somewhat been lost is lifelong, strong bonds and real conversations between people you have unconditional trust with. Having two of those is better than a million Instagram followers. Same with 'keeping up with culture and trends'. Like what does that actually mean. Is anyone really better off when they follow Kim Kardashians daily drama? Is hooking into every trend really producing independent, smart, autonomous, strong-willed people? There's value in disconnecting and spending time with yourself and alone that many younger kids in particular don't have space for any more.
- standardUser 6y ago
  "...friends you chat with two times per year is not friendship in a real sense of the term" No, it is a different sense of the term and has different value. That's not in any way a bad thing, nor does it detract from other relationships. It is purely additive. "There's value in disconnecting and spending time with yourself..." Right, but using social media does not stop one from enjoying personal time. Why would it? Again, it is additive. I'd also point you to my other comment about unique communities and opportunities that only exits on the established social media platforms.
  - Barrin92 6y ago
    >nor does it detract from other relationships okay I'll invite you the next time you're at a bar or cafe to pay close attention to how many people look at their phone instead of focusing on the person they're with. Time and attention are precious, we don't have a lot of it. It's the opposite of additive, it's the scarcest thing in the world, because attention and time are the only thing you cannot make more of. Every moment spent on following trends, liking dog pictures, getting that additional hit of dopamine from getting some more followers or a notification alert is a signal that disrupts focus and draws your mind away from relationships or things that matter. >unique communities and opportunities that only exits on the established social media platforms. An opportunity that only exists on a social media platform and is intermediated by some third party is terrible and takes agency and control away from you. You can do a business without social media, you can find subcultures and local communities in almost all places on the planet, where you can make real and lasting connections rather than superficial digital ones.

PenguinCoder 6y ago

Two things I _need_ and get from a smart phone that I can't get from a dumbphone - GOOD GPS/Maps, and NFC/contactless payment.

tayo42 6y ago
I would include a camera too. I don't really want to carry a dslr, i like that google photos are pretty much synced and backed up. It not fun for me to run some crappy data back up thing. I like taking pictures, i like looking back on them. I use them for painting inspiration too. I don't really need to be a photographer though with a dslr or whatever is cool now
grillvogel 6y ago
you could get a gshock watch with GPS, and don't most credit cards have NFC options now?
- PenguinCoder 6y ago
  I forget my wallet a lot, but I don't forget my phone. Or, if I'm already pulling out the wallet for the card, miswell use the card.

mixmastamyk 6y ago

All my job searches have been organized over email, and the poster said no smartphone, not no phone. Exaggerating a bit?

jc_811 6y ago

I don't think you need a smartphone and social media to do any of the above listed tasks. The author's qualm isn't with having an online presence, or being tapped into modern society, it's having that modern society constantly tapping you on the shoulder with a bombardment of notifications and algorithms designed specifically to get you hooked. I think you can easily travel, have a wide network of far flung friends, be involved in niche hobbies, look for a new job, and keep up with modern trends & cultures - all without a smart phone and social media. If you have a laptop & internet connection - you're good to go! This allows you to tap in when you want on your own terms instead of the other way around.

standardUser 6y ago
I found a great website recently by a man who collects crayons. A niche activity if there ever was one. Want to be part of that community? It exists only on Facebook. I moved abroad a couple years ago and needed a way to get involved with the local ex-pat community. One guess where all of their organizing and communicating was done. Want to bootstrap a home business, like so many mask-makers have done during the pandemic? How do you get your initial traction without friends and family on the social media networks? If people want to opt out of the modern world that's fine, but let's not pretend they aren't missing out.
- Nextgrid 6y ago
  Even more reasons why anti-trust action against social media monopolies and laws like the GDPR are important. You might not be able to "beat" Facebook, but at least regulation will tone down its scumminess and make it slightly more tolerable.
  - nicbou 6y ago
    You could argue that without a free, simple platform and its audience, such websites wouldn't exist in such large numbers. Not everyone has the patience to run a website.

Barrin92 6y ago

>But yeah, sure, sounds great for the tiny number of people who don't require any of the above. Most people actually need none of that stuff. I think there's a lot of illusions that come with social media. Having 500 Facebook friends you chat with two times per year is not friendship in a real sense of the term. What many people are looking for arguably these days and what has somewhat been lost is lifelong, strong bonds and real conversations between people you have unconditional trust with. Having two of those is better than a million Instagram followers. Same with 'keeping up with culture and trends'. Like what does that actually mean. Is anyone really better off when they follow Kim Kardashians daily drama? Is hooking into every trend really producing independent, smart, autonomous, strong-willed people? There's value in disconnecting and spending time with yourself and alone that many younger kids in particular don't have space for any more.

standardUser 6y ago
"...friends you chat with two times per year is not friendship in a real sense of the term" No, it is a different sense of the term and has different value. That's not in any way a bad thing, nor does it detract from other relationships. It is purely additive. "There's value in disconnecting and spending time with yourself..." Right, but using social media does not stop one from enjoying personal time. Why would it? Again, it is additive. I'd also point you to my other comment about unique communities and opportunities that only exits on the established social media platforms.
- Barrin92 6y ago
  >nor does it detract from other relationships okay I'll invite you the next time you're at a bar or cafe to pay close attention to how many people look at their phone instead of focusing on the person they're with. Time and attention are precious, we don't have a lot of it. It's the opposite of additive, it's the scarcest thing in the world, because attention and time are the only thing you cannot make more of. Every moment spent on following trends, liking dog pictures, getting that additional hit of dopamine from getting some more followers or a notification alert is a signal that disrupts focus and draws your mind away from relationships or things that matter. >unique communities and opportunities that only exits on the established social media platforms. An opportunity that only exists on a social media platform and is intermediated by some third party is terrible and takes agency and control away from you. You can do a business without social media, you can find subcultures and local communities in almost all places on the planet, where you can make real and lasting connections rather than superficial digital ones.