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As somebody writing his first novel, I had to discover how hard writing can be. The problem with prose is that it becomes good only after many passes of editing

As somebody writing his first novel, I had to discover how hard writing can be. The problem with prose is that it becomes good only after many passes of editing. Many means that the same chapters will be read tens of times, and sometimes certain parts will be rewritten several times. But there is no escape for this process, every prose can be improved, so in order to avoid a subpar output, this is what you need to do. However this only happens in the second stage. The first draft is another matter: in this moment you are free to let your creativity run and deeply surprise yourself. In general I believe that the creation of decent things, whatever they are, and even in the artistic world, a lot of efforts are needed, and this can make you hate the process sometimes.

tpmx 6y ago
When working closely with graphical artists in creating mobile browser UIs at Opera Software ~10 years ago I found out kinda the same thing. We went through so many people who just couldn't (or rather: wouldn't) iterate. They made one iteration and that was it. After that first iteration they wanted some new project or some new approach. Improving on the current approach was boring. They were often great artists, but not yet that suitable for this kind of grinding we're doing when creating mass-market software products. The people we stuck with were able to do 10+ iterations, slightly improving on each iteration. I think the ability/willingness to iterate is very important in artistic fields. It does not seem to be a part of the typical university-level education programs. I think this is bad - although I see how it could be a challenge to include this aspect there.
- antirez 6y ago
  I agree with every word. It is not the most funny part of the process, and it requires some perspective, to realize that the first version of anything is something that can be more perfect. But it pays so much. However there is to make sure to avoid the reverse, iterating forever. There are folks I know with books that are in the "I'm almost there" stage for 5/6 years.
  - tpmx 6y ago
    I guess the requirements are: a) the mental ability to iterate b) a competent editor who can keep them moving forwards Perhaps some very unusual people are able to handle a+b on their own, but I think most people need that other person/editor.
    - antirez 6y ago
      Yep, the editori apparently is needed, and I'm starting to work with one. But in my specific case, with my programming background, I wanted to reach the editor only with a novel that was already very readable and already targeted by N passes of reviews and corrections done on my own. Others decide to work with an editor at a much early stage. Depends on many things I guess.
vadansky 6y ago
In the Simpson's commentary for the early seasons they said they did 30 read throughs of jokes, and if it was funny for 29 times but not on the 30th, they axe it.

tpmx 6y ago

When working closely with graphical artists in creating mobile browser UIs at Opera Software ~10 years ago I found out kinda the same thing. We went through so many people who just couldn't (or rather: wouldn't) iterate. They made one iteration and that was it. After that first iteration they wanted some new project or some new approach. Improving on the current approach was boring. They were often great artists, but not yet that suitable for this kind of grinding we're doing when creating mass-market software products. The people we stuck with were able to do 10+ iterations, slightly improving on each iteration. I think the ability/willingness to iterate is very important in artistic fields. It does not seem to be a part of the typical university-level education programs. I think this is bad - although I see how it could be a challenge to include this aspect there.

antirez 6y ago
I agree with every word. It is not the most funny part of the process, and it requires some perspective, to realize that the first version of anything is something that can be more perfect. But it pays so much. However there is to make sure to avoid the reverse, iterating forever. There are folks I know with books that are in the "I'm almost there" stage for 5/6 years.
- tpmx 6y ago
  I guess the requirements are: a) the mental ability to iterate b) a competent editor who can keep them moving forwards Perhaps some very unusual people are able to handle a+b on their own, but I think most people need that other person/editor.
  - antirez 6y ago
    Yep, the editori apparently is needed, and I'm starting to work with one. But in my specific case, with my programming background, I wanted to reach the editor only with a novel that was already very readable and already targeted by N passes of reviews and corrections done on my own. Others decide to work with an editor at a much early stage. Depends on many things I guess.

vadansky 6y ago

In the Simpson's commentary for the early seasons they said they did 30 read throughs of jokes, and if it was funny for 29 times but not on the 30th, they axe it.