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I subscribe to the Unix Philosophy when it comes to groups/institutions, "do one thing and do it well" and "It just does exactly what it says on the tin and no

I subscribe to the Unix Philosophy when it comes to groups/institutions, "do one thing and do it well" and "It just does exactly what it says on the tin and no more". My ideal knitting community is all about honing the craft and experience of knitting. Politics does not belong in a knitting forum. Besides being irrelevant to needlework, it's the most polarizing and contentious subject for a group to adopt. Why risk a schism, or make people feel marginalized based on an irrelevant worldview? Sadly, contemporary activists want politics to permeate through every aspect of society because they believe that's the best way to advance their agenda. Maybe they're right, because it forces people to tribalize and it makes the 'enemy' in the culture war easy to rally against.

compiler-guy 6y ago
Knitters often include political messages in their patterns. From rainbows to certain shades of purple to flags to actual text. So if the site is to allow arbitrary patterns—and that is its whole genesis—it will have to deal with political messages.
paulgb 6y ago
That's fine as a Platonic ideal, but I don't understand how you get there in practice. In the context of the OP, is your stance that the pink hats should have been banned from the site because they have a political message?
- BitwiseFool 6y ago
  Yes, I realize that my conception is a platonic ideal and the real-world application of my ideal is bound to be messy and there will be disagreement. In this situation it would come down to a judgement call. I would allow the patterns because they are knitting related. I don't want to restrict any user's freedom to upload a pattern - even if it's political. And I don't want to restrict anyone else from downloading those patterns. I suppose my desire to let people share needlework patterns outweighs my desire to exclude politics. I'm more concerned about user behavior around political patterns rather than the political message of the patterns themselves. To this point, I would be weary about any user who starts to agitate and evangelize. The key is how these users are behaving outside of those particular pattern pages. Are they intentionally trying to inject politics into other knitting discussions? Are they trying to recruit like minded people, or shaming other users who disagree? If so, that's when I would warn the user to stop, and then ban the user if they aren't making a sincere effort to be less contentious.
  - flir 6y ago
    The irony is that "no politics here" is, in itself, a political stance. There's a spectrum here. I'm sure there are words baked into a knitting pattern you would find acceptable, and words you wouldn't. The place where you draw that line is a political decision. And, lets be honest, we both know what online communities are like. If you draw no line at all you'll attract 100 awful people for every principled free speech activist. And if you draw a line, any kind of a line, a proportion of your userbase will spend their time tiptoeing up to it and rules lawyering it for fun. You can't avoid politics being an ongoing issue in any community.
pixl97 6y ago
Some ideas are like viruses, they will spread until the population is inoculated against them. Politics everywhere is one of those current pandemics.
wl 6y ago
Among my friends who were big into Ravelry circa 2010, the experience seemed to be: Come for the patterns, stay for the community.

compiler-guy 6y ago

Knitters often include political messages in their patterns. From rainbows to certain shades of purple to flags to actual text. So if the site is to allow arbitrary patterns—and that is its whole genesis—it will have to deal with political messages.

paulgb 6y ago

That's fine as a Platonic ideal, but I don't understand how you get there in practice. In the context of the OP, is your stance that the pink hats should have been banned from the site because they have a political message?

BitwiseFool 6y ago
Yes, I realize that my conception is a platonic ideal and the real-world application of my ideal is bound to be messy and there will be disagreement. In this situation it would come down to a judgement call. I would allow the patterns because they are knitting related. I don't want to restrict any user's freedom to upload a pattern - even if it's political. And I don't want to restrict anyone else from downloading those patterns. I suppose my desire to let people share needlework patterns outweighs my desire to exclude politics. I'm more concerned about user behavior around political patterns rather than the political message of the patterns themselves. To this point, I would be weary about any user who starts to agitate and evangelize. The key is how these users are behaving outside of those particular pattern pages. Are they intentionally trying to inject politics into other knitting discussions? Are they trying to recruit like minded people, or shaming other users who disagree? If so, that's when I would warn the user to stop, and then ban the user if they aren't making a sincere effort to be less contentious.
- flir 6y ago
  The irony is that "no politics here" is, in itself, a political stance. There's a spectrum here. I'm sure there are words baked into a knitting pattern you would find acceptable, and words you wouldn't. The place where you draw that line is a political decision. And, lets be honest, we both know what online communities are like. If you draw no line at all you'll attract 100 awful people for every principled free speech activist. And if you draw a line, any kind of a line, a proportion of your userbase will spend their time tiptoeing up to it and rules lawyering it for fun. You can't avoid politics being an ongoing issue in any community.

pixl97 6y ago

Some ideas are like viruses, they will spread until the population is inoculated against them. Politics everywhere is one of those current pandemics.

wl 6y ago

Among my friends who were big into Ravelry circa 2010, the experience seemed to be: Come for the patterns, stay for the community.