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>Matrix won't run forever (they're also burning through cash right now) Matrix is an open protocol; it doesn't need a company behind it to continue existing, u

by stryan 6y ago

>Matrix won't run forever (they're also burning through cash right now) Matrix is an open protocol; it doesn't need a company behind it to continue existing, unlike Discord. If you mean Element (formerly New Vector), are they? I'd believe that they're not raking in the dough or anything, but they've gotten some good government contracts in the past few years so I'd assume they have some money.

nerdponx 6y ago
Edit: I misread the pricing page, see the reply below. Keeping my post for archival purposes. One problem with Element is that there's no "individual $5/mo" plan or a "you and your buddies pool your pocket change every month to keep a server up" plan. And the free hosts all have bad performance which leads to a bad experience. The minimum plan is $20/mo for 10 users. That's a bit steep for a group of kids to pool their money for, compared to old-school Teamspeak hosting. And I don't know of any company that I can pay for personal Matrix hosting, or any company that offers a Discord Nitro equivalent, where I can pay a few bucks a month and get this or that extra perk. Where is the Fastmail of Matrix? Also, the UX of Element flat-out sucks. It's like those "we have X at home" memes.
- stryan 6y ago
  > The minimum plan is $20/mo for 10 users. That's a bit steep for a group of kids to pool their money for, compared to old-school Teamspeak hosting. I'm not sure where you got that number, as the minimum enterprise plan is Nickel, which is $10 a month. They also have Element Home[0] now, which is $10 a month for 5 users, plus custom domain.element.io server. Costs $2 a month for additional users, and I believe they're adding more options. > And I don't know of any company that I can pay for personal Matrix hosting First google result leads you to matrix.org/hosting which lists Ungleich.ch as a non-Element option. I've seen at least one other place also offering it, but admittedly I do not remember their name and that's still a small number. > the UX of Element flat-out sucks Eh, to each their own. I don't mind it too much (the Android app is great for me) and it's getting better over time. [0]: https://element.io/pricing https://element.io/pricing
  - nerdponx 6y ago
    I misread the pricing page, thanks for setting me straight. $10/month for that is actually perfect. Still, I think the Element desktop client is really lacking compared to Discord and I haven't been able to get any of the alternative ones working smoothly.
Arathorn 6y ago
speaking as CEO for Element, we're doing okay actually. In fact we could be profitable right now, but instead we chose to hire more folks to focus on improving Element's UX and make sure we can be a FOSS alternative to Slack/Teams/Discord which if anything is a step up on UX (just as GitLab more than punches its weight against GitHub).
- kuschku 6y ago
  Sure, but you either continue expanding, never reaching profitability until you're so large you'll have to use creative monetization efforts (as Discord did), or you'll have to stop growth at some point (like IRCCloud did). I've talked with a few of your devs at the chaos congress in leipzig, and as Quasseldroid dev and contributor to IRCv3 I know the issues too well. The constant new features, more performance, more storage, etc as Discord offers them is just not possible in a sustainable way. Especially group video calls in massive communities of non-paying users (which is common on Discord) is just almost impossible to do in a profitable way. That said, you've had the most success in open communication so far, and I sincerely wish you good luck with it in the future :)

by stryan 6y ago

nerdponx 6y ago

Edit: I misread the pricing page, see the reply below. Keeping my post for archival purposes. One problem with Element is that there's no "individual $5/mo" plan or a "you and your buddies pool your pocket change every month to keep a server up" plan. And the free hosts all have bad performance which leads to a bad experience. The minimum plan is $20/mo for 10 users. That's a bit steep for a group of kids to pool their money for, compared to old-school Teamspeak hosting. And I don't know of any company that I can pay for personal Matrix hosting, or any company that offers a Discord Nitro equivalent, where I can pay a few bucks a month and get this or that extra perk. Where is the Fastmail of Matrix? Also, the UX of Element flat-out sucks. It's like those "we have X at home" memes.

stryan 6y ago
> The minimum plan is $20/mo for 10 users. That's a bit steep for a group of kids to pool their money for, compared to old-school Teamspeak hosting. I'm not sure where you got that number, as the minimum enterprise plan is Nickel, which is $10 a month. They also have Element Home[0] now, which is $10 a month for 5 users, plus custom domain.element.io server. Costs $2 a month for additional users, and I believe they're adding more options. > And I don't know of any company that I can pay for personal Matrix hosting First google result leads you to matrix.org/hosting which lists Ungleich.ch as a non-Element option. I've seen at least one other place also offering it, but admittedly I do not remember their name and that's still a small number. > the UX of Element flat-out sucks Eh, to each their own. I don't mind it too much (the Android app is great for me) and it's getting better over time. [0]: https://element.io/pricing https://element.io/pricing
- nerdponx 6y ago
  I misread the pricing page, thanks for setting me straight. $10/month for that is actually perfect. Still, I think the Element desktop client is really lacking compared to Discord and I haven't been able to get any of the alternative ones working smoothly.

Arathorn 6y ago

speaking as CEO for Element, we're doing okay actually. In fact we could be profitable right now, but instead we chose to hire more folks to focus on improving Element's UX and make sure we can be a FOSS alternative to Slack/Teams/Discord which if anything is a step up on UX (just as GitLab more than punches its weight against GitHub).

kuschku 6y ago
Sure, but you either continue expanding, never reaching profitability until you're so large you'll have to use creative monetization efforts (as Discord did), or you'll have to stop growth at some point (like IRCCloud did). I've talked with a few of your devs at the chaos congress in leipzig, and as Quasseldroid dev and contributor to IRCv3 I know the issues too well. The constant new features, more performance, more storage, etc as Discord offers them is just not possible in a sustainable way. Especially group video calls in massive communities of non-paying users (which is common on Discord) is just almost impossible to do in a profitable way. That said, you've had the most success in open communication so far, and I sincerely wish you good luck with it in the future :)