5 ms·

But if you're not "weak", you could inadvertently spread it to someone who is "weak", and they could spread it to many other "weak" people, and then they all di

But if you're not "weak", you could inadvertently spread it to someone who is "weak", and they could spread it to many other "weak" people, and then they all die and don't pass on their genes. It's true that this is a form of eugenics and natural selection, but it's not the kind that's compatible with the values of most humans.

mrkramer 6y ago
Don't worry I'm not going to harm anyone just like Spanish flu ended in 2 years this pandemic will also end soon. I discussed months ago here on HN that looking legally causing someone's death without intent is not criminal because you had no intent of killing. Take a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea "A person commits an offense if he: intentionally or knowingly causes the death of an individual." I have no intent or knowledge that I'm going to harm anyone. Another guy said in that discussion something like "How is this virus any different from other viruses?" Should I blame people for spreading STDs for example? Of course not they spread it unintentionally and without knowledge in most cases.
- SirSavary 6y ago
  You better hope that the judge handling your case doesn't stumble upon this comment thread. Your lack of Mens Rea isn't going to fly if you're caught meta-discussing the whole thing. Also, manslaughter?
  - mrkramer 6y ago
    I'm not a lawyer but am I guilty because I want my human rights and my freedom of choice? Should I blame you or any other person of spreading STDs for example? Or any other disease without intent or knowledge? I welcome any legal advice because I have no INTENTION of HARMING anyone.
    - rootusrootus 6y ago
      > I have no INTENTION of HARMING anyone. I feel the same way when I'm doing 150mph down the highway. And yet...
      - mrkramer 6y ago
        If you kill somebody you will be charged for involuntary manslaughter or constructive manslaughter depending on what speed limit was but if I sit next to you unvaccinated in a waiting room should I be charged as well?
        Omnitaus 6y ago
        I mean if you're against vaccines, the best public health measure since soap, perhaps you're the weakest link we're begging natural selection to act on. Hope you don't use glasses, take antibiotics, receive surgery, or benefit otherwise from the million and one things humans have invented so as to not deal with random selection dependent on changing external stimuli
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
        mrkramer 6y ago
        >I mean if you're against vaccines, the best public health measure since soap, perhaps you're the weakest link we're begging natural selection to act on. I'm not against vaccination I'm against mandatory vaccination and limiting my human rights if I don't vaccinate. Nobody will prevent you from visiting a country if you don't use glasses, take antibiotics or anything else you mentioned. I never visited Africa but I heard there are some security measures regarding Malaria but c'mon forbidding someone to work or travel only because he or she didn't get vaccinated against 1 pathogen is over the top.
        selimthegrim 6y ago
        I guess you're against sovereignty of nations other than your own? Plus how are they going to buy your country's vaccine if you/your countrymen won't take it?
  - mrkramer 6y ago
    And btw I understand what manslaughter is but again I'm not a lawyer. Refer me to any case or cases where someone is guilty of spreading a virus without intent(Involuntary).
    - WJW 6y ago
      First google result: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/man-with-hiv-did-not-intentionally-have-unprotected-sex-1.3551360 https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit.... It's not difficult to find more examples. If you know or could reasonably suspect you have a lethal virus and still go out without taking proper precautions then that is absolutely something people have sued over many many times.
      - mrkramer 6y ago
        It is unclear whether defendant was aware of having a HIV. It seems like he had no intent of spreading a disease and had limited or no knowledge of having it. "I didn’t really do it intentionally but when we were drunk it ended up happening”." How the case ended?
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      Laws adopted in the course of the HIV pandemic in many jurisdictions made various acts that were more likely to spread the virus criminal if you knew you were infected unless other people put at risk were informed of the fact and consented to the risk, whether or not you intended to cause harm.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > I discussed months ago here on HN that looking legally causing someone's death without intent is not criminal because you had no intent of killing Intentional killing is usually first degree murder, or voluntary manslaughter, depending on premeditation. Second (in some schemes third) degree murder (depraved indifference) and involuntary manslaughter, and negligent homicide all are crimes, and do not require intent to kill. So, you are very, very wrong. > I have no intent or knowledge that I'm going to harm anyone The source you link notes that there are other levels of mens rea supporting criminal offenses (recklessness, negligence) as well as offenses which are not dependent on mental state at all (strict liability offenses.)
  - mrkramer 6y ago
    I understand what involuntary manslaughter is but does it apply to spreading a virus? I'm not a lawyer but if it does I will act accordingly and try not to commit involuntary manslaughter hypothetically speaking.
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      > I understand what involuntary manslaughter is but does it apply to spreading a virus? Neither depraved heart murder nor involuntary manslaughter has an exception for viral-agent-as-mechanism on any jurisdiction I'm familiar with.
- nkohari 6y ago
  Legality and ethics are two distinct things.
  - mrkramer 6y ago
    I know but legal system is based on ethics. E.g. not stealing or not killing etc.

mrkramer 6y ago

Don't worry I'm not going to harm anyone just like Spanish flu ended in 2 years this pandemic will also end soon. I discussed months ago here on HN that looking legally causing someone's death without intent is not criminal because you had no intent of killing. Take a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea "A person commits an offense if he: intentionally or knowingly causes the death of an individual." I have no intent or knowledge that I'm going to harm anyone. Another guy said in that discussion something like "How is this virus any different from other viruses?" Should I blame people for spreading STDs for example? Of course not they spread it unintentionally and without knowledge in most cases.

SirSavary 6y ago
You better hope that the judge handling your case doesn't stumble upon this comment thread. Your lack of Mens Rea isn't going to fly if you're caught meta-discussing the whole thing. Also, manslaughter?
- mrkramer 6y ago
  I'm not a lawyer but am I guilty because I want my human rights and my freedom of choice? Should I blame you or any other person of spreading STDs for example? Or any other disease without intent or knowledge? I welcome any legal advice because I have no INTENTION of HARMING anyone.
  - rootusrootus 6y ago
    > I have no INTENTION of HARMING anyone. I feel the same way when I'm doing 150mph down the highway. And yet...
    - mrkramer 6y ago
      If you kill somebody you will be charged for involuntary manslaughter or constructive manslaughter depending on what speed limit was but if I sit next to you unvaccinated in a waiting room should I be charged as well?
      - Omnitaus 6y ago
        I mean if you're against vaccines, the best public health measure since soap, perhaps you're the weakest link we're begging natural selection to act on. Hope you don't use glasses, take antibiotics, receive surgery, or benefit otherwise from the million and one things humans have invented so as to not deal with random selection dependent on changing external stimuli
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
        mrkramer 6y ago
        >I mean if you're against vaccines, the best public health measure since soap, perhaps you're the weakest link we're begging natural selection to act on. I'm not against vaccination I'm against mandatory vaccination and limiting my human rights if I don't vaccinate. Nobody will prevent you from visiting a country if you don't use glasses, take antibiotics or anything else you mentioned. I never visited Africa but I heard there are some security measures regarding Malaria but c'mon forbidding someone to work or travel only because he or she didn't get vaccinated against 1 pathogen is over the top.
        selimthegrim 6y ago
        I guess you're against sovereignty of nations other than your own? Plus how are they going to buy your country's vaccine if you/your countrymen won't take it?
- mrkramer 6y ago
  And btw I understand what manslaughter is but again I'm not a lawyer. Refer me to any case or cases where someone is guilty of spreading a virus without intent(Involuntary).
  - WJW 6y ago
    First google result: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/man-with-hiv-did-not-intentionally-have-unprotected-sex-1.3551360 https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit.... It's not difficult to find more examples. If you know or could reasonably suspect you have a lethal virus and still go out without taking proper precautions then that is absolutely something people have sued over many many times.
    - mrkramer 6y ago
      It is unclear whether defendant was aware of having a HIV. It seems like he had no intent of spreading a disease and had limited or no knowledge of having it. "I didn’t really do it intentionally but when we were drunk it ended up happening”." How the case ended?
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    Laws adopted in the course of the HIV pandemic in many jurisdictions made various acts that were more likely to spread the virus criminal if you knew you were infected unless other people put at risk were informed of the fact and consented to the risk, whether or not you intended to cause harm.
dragonwriter 6y ago
> I discussed months ago here on HN that looking legally causing someone's death without intent is not criminal because you had no intent of killing Intentional killing is usually first degree murder, or voluntary manslaughter, depending on premeditation. Second (in some schemes third) degree murder (depraved indifference) and involuntary manslaughter, and negligent homicide all are crimes, and do not require intent to kill. So, you are very, very wrong. > I have no intent or knowledge that I'm going to harm anyone The source you link notes that there are other levels of mens rea supporting criminal offenses (recklessness, negligence) as well as offenses which are not dependent on mental state at all (strict liability offenses.)
- mrkramer 6y ago
  I understand what involuntary manslaughter is but does it apply to spreading a virus? I'm not a lawyer but if it does I will act accordingly and try not to commit involuntary manslaughter hypothetically speaking.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > I understand what involuntary manslaughter is but does it apply to spreading a virus? Neither depraved heart murder nor involuntary manslaughter has an exception for viral-agent-as-mechanism on any jurisdiction I'm familiar with.
nkohari 6y ago
Legality and ethics are two distinct things.
- mrkramer 6y ago
  I know but legal system is based on ethics. E.g. not stealing or not killing etc.