5 ms·

I'm living in Germany, and coming from NZ (where we have fairly universal 1Gbps FTTH) it has certainly been a big step down, but it can't compare to some of the

I'm living in Germany, and coming from NZ (where we have fairly universal 1Gbps FTTH) it has certainly been a big step down, but it can't compare to some of the insanity that my US friends deal with.

robert_foss 6y ago
I live in central Berlin, and it is is downright embarrassing, internet access in Germany is terrible. 10 years ago I had 1Gbps fiber in Sweden. For reference I have 400/20 Cable, for 44Eur/m. No caps. Provider Pyur. Overall medium terrible experience.
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  200/5 runs $80/month here (upstate NY, USA), and I’m in a “good” broadband spot for my area.
- ChuckNorris89 6y ago
  Jan Böhmermann (Germany's John Oliver) did an investigation on his show[1] into Germany's terrible internet infrastructure and proved it's basically down to corruption from Kohl's regime that scrapped the fiber plans for copper in order to enrich a certain friendly company with political ties that was big in the copper business back then. [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDNYS_4dkAc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDNYS_4dkAc
  - ng55QPSK 6y ago
    And for 40 years they could not change? Fiber is comming close and close to homes every year as it's needed for FTTC (and doing vectoring on DSL for the last 400m) and for DOCSIS on coaxial cables.
    - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
      >And for 40 years they could not change? Of course they 'could', but that would mean for corruption to have gone down and political competence to have gone up in those 40 years but unfortunately it hasn't, quite the opposite. In Germany, high level corruption and political incompetence has only increased in that time (see BER airport, VW emissions scandal, and the handling of COVID). Basically if you're well connected and rich, you're untouchable in Germany and your corruption mishaps will be swept under the rug as casual political 'whoopsies' right after you retire to a gold plated pension.
      - CaptainZapp 6y ago
        Well, quite a number of politicians got shitcanned after it turned that their dissertations were plagiarized. So it's not that you're completely untouchable. Even with friends in high places.
    - tchocky 6y ago
      Germany privatised telecommunication in the 90s (was done by German Post before) including all the infrastructure (which was a really bad idea in hindsight). Most of the infrastructure is in the hand of the former state business and they want to squeeze the last Euro out of the copper wiring instead of investing in proper fiber infrastructure. Vectoring is just one more tool to squeeze the last bit out of old copper wires that have been in the ground for over 70 years. Also vectoring only works with one provider per node, and the German state gives most of the privilege to the Telekom. It was written in some comments before, but Germany could have had the most modern fiber infrastructure in the world when the plans of former chancellor Helmut Schmitt wouldn't have been stopped by the Helmut Kohl government who was good friends with Leo Kirch, who was a big player in the German TV market and would rather benefit from copper wiring than fiber.
- intellirogue 6y ago
  Also in central Berlin with the same speed connection. But my friends in the US, both in major metropolitan areas, can only dream of such a connection. One has no option but ADSL which reaches 8Mbps on a good day, the other is luckier and has Cable but only 100Mbps.
  - MaxBarraclough 6y ago
    > only 100Mbps What use would you have for throughput in excess of 100Mbps?
    - CaptainZapp 6y ago
      It's nice when you want to download RDR2 on Steam.
      - MaxBarraclough 6y ago
        Sure, but how many times a year does something like that crop up? Personally I don't mind leaving a vast download like that to run overnight. On a related note, software updates run in the background, so whether it takes a minute or an hour makes little difference. Same for automated backup. I very rarely have use for capacity beyond 40Mbps, or perhaps even 25. 4K streaming is as demanding as it gets. If 40Mbps is appreciably cheaper than 100, I'll take 40. If your Internet connection can't handle video chat and streaming, then you're right to say you don't have a decent modern Internet connection, and it's holding back what you can do. Capacity beyond 40Mbps, though, is rarely of any real consequence. (I mean this in the particular context of home broadband, of course.)
        CaptainZapp 6y ago
        Sure, it's rare enough that you download to such excess. But the thing is that thanks to fiber there's hardly any difference price wise. So why not use it, when it's on offer? Before that I had 100Mb up and down and was pretty happy with it. Large games could be a bit of a drag. Especially when GTA5 became available and I wanted to play it right now!
- Symbiote 6y ago
  > For reference I have 400/20 Cable, for 44Eur/m That's not too bad, is it? Sweden has had world-leading broadband for a decade, and your upload could be higher, but "downright embarrassing" is people stuck on a 24Mbit ADSL connection. (I have 300/30 Mbit/s cable for 340DKK = 45€. I could upgrade to 1000/500 Mbit/s fibre for ... actually only 320DKK, but I haven't bothered.)

I'm living in Germany, and coming from NZ (where we have fairly universal 1Gbps FTTH) it has certainly been a big step down, but it can't compare to some of the insanity that my US friends deal with.

robert_foss 6y ago

I live in central Berlin, and it is is downright embarrassing, internet access in Germany is terrible. 10 years ago I had 1Gbps fiber in Sweden. For reference I have 400/20 Cable, for 44Eur/m. No caps. Provider Pyur. Overall medium terrible experience.

ceejayoz 6y ago
200/5 runs $80/month here (upstate NY, USA), and I’m in a “good” broadband spot for my area.
ChuckNorris89 6y ago
Jan Böhmermann (Germany's John Oliver) did an investigation on his show[1] into Germany's terrible internet infrastructure and proved it's basically down to corruption from Kohl's regime that scrapped the fiber plans for copper in order to enrich a certain friendly company with political ties that was big in the copper business back then. [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDNYS_4dkAc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDNYS_4dkAc
- ng55QPSK 6y ago
  And for 40 years they could not change? Fiber is comming close and close to homes every year as it's needed for FTTC (and doing vectoring on DSL for the last 400m) and for DOCSIS on coaxial cables.
  - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
    >And for 40 years they could not change? Of course they 'could', but that would mean for corruption to have gone down and political competence to have gone up in those 40 years but unfortunately it hasn't, quite the opposite. In Germany, high level corruption and political incompetence has only increased in that time (see BER airport, VW emissions scandal, and the handling of COVID). Basically if you're well connected and rich, you're untouchable in Germany and your corruption mishaps will be swept under the rug as casual political 'whoopsies' right after you retire to a gold plated pension.
    - CaptainZapp 6y ago
      Well, quite a number of politicians got shitcanned after it turned that their dissertations were plagiarized. So it's not that you're completely untouchable. Even with friends in high places.
  - tchocky 6y ago
    Germany privatised telecommunication in the 90s (was done by German Post before) including all the infrastructure (which was a really bad idea in hindsight). Most of the infrastructure is in the hand of the former state business and they want to squeeze the last Euro out of the copper wiring instead of investing in proper fiber infrastructure. Vectoring is just one more tool to squeeze the last bit out of old copper wires that have been in the ground for over 70 years. Also vectoring only works with one provider per node, and the German state gives most of the privilege to the Telekom. It was written in some comments before, but Germany could have had the most modern fiber infrastructure in the world when the plans of former chancellor Helmut Schmitt wouldn't have been stopped by the Helmut Kohl government who was good friends with Leo Kirch, who was a big player in the German TV market and would rather benefit from copper wiring than fiber.
intellirogue 6y ago
Also in central Berlin with the same speed connection. But my friends in the US, both in major metropolitan areas, can only dream of such a connection. One has no option but ADSL which reaches 8Mbps on a good day, the other is luckier and has Cable but only 100Mbps.
- MaxBarraclough 6y ago
  > only 100Mbps What use would you have for throughput in excess of 100Mbps?
  - CaptainZapp 6y ago
    It's nice when you want to download RDR2 on Steam.
    - MaxBarraclough 6y ago
      Sure, but how many times a year does something like that crop up? Personally I don't mind leaving a vast download like that to run overnight. On a related note, software updates run in the background, so whether it takes a minute or an hour makes little difference. Same for automated backup. I very rarely have use for capacity beyond 40Mbps, or perhaps even 25. 4K streaming is as demanding as it gets. If 40Mbps is appreciably cheaper than 100, I'll take 40. If your Internet connection can't handle video chat and streaming, then you're right to say you don't have a decent modern Internet connection, and it's holding back what you can do. Capacity beyond 40Mbps, though, is rarely of any real consequence. (I mean this in the particular context of home broadband, of course.)
      - CaptainZapp 6y ago
        Sure, it's rare enough that you download to such excess. But the thing is that thanks to fiber there's hardly any difference price wise. So why not use it, when it's on offer? Before that I had 100Mb up and down and was pretty happy with it. Large games could be a bit of a drag. Especially when GTA5 became available and I wanted to play it right now!
Symbiote 6y ago
> For reference I have 400/20 Cable, for 44Eur/m That's not too bad, is it? Sweden has had world-leading broadband for a decade, and your upload could be higher, but "downright embarrassing" is people stuck on a 24Mbit ADSL connection. (I have 300/30 Mbit/s cable for 340DKK = 45€. I could upgrade to 1000/500 Mbit/s fibre for ... actually only 320DKK, but I haven't bothered.)