3 ms·

Exactly. If there were an Anthrax outbreak in Ft. Detrick, MD, everyone would be immediately assuming the lab was involved. Wuhan is the Ft. Detrick of Corona

Exactly. If there were an Anthrax outbreak in Ft. Detrick, MD, everyone would be immediately assuming the lab was involved. Wuhan is the Ft. Detrick of Coronaviruses.

aww_dang 6y ago
There were two incidents at that facility. The first led to a building being condemned. The second was a more nebulous investigation into the yet unsolved 2001 anthrax attacks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Hatfill#Lawsuits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Hatfill#Lawsuits
FabHK 6y ago
I wrote this on 2020-01-24 (when that speculation was fairly new), and wonder why that sort of simple statistical argument has rarely been made explicit: It certainly is an interesting coincidence that the only lab in China that can deal with it happens to be in Wuhan. The question is, how big of a coincidence. If the disease hit a random person randomly uniformly anywhere in China, the probability that it would have happened in Wuhan is a bit less than 1% (as there are about 10+m people in Wuhan, and 1400+m people in China). If you think it might have struck randomly any city above a million people in China uniformly, it’s also roundabout 1% (as there are about 100 of those). So this is by no means proof that something fishy happened, but it is significant enough to warrant investigation. If you assume that this could only have happened in a city with, say, more than 5m people, Wuhan is one of about 15 to 20 of those (so we're just above the "usual" 5% significance threshold). Still, an independent investigation of that lab seems warranted. Of course it’s China, so unlikely to happen... (I must say that I think the comment has stood the test of time, so far.)
- bingbong70 6y ago
  We are fitting information here...if a foreign actor were to drop covid-19 in a Chinese city, they would choose Wuhan for the same reasons you stated... China and many other countries in the global south have a long history of being the victim of US/Japan/UK germ warfare. Seems convenient/self-serving to ignore this multi-century trend.
  - checker 6y ago
    If this was an attack it would be similar to being locked in a crowded elevator, getting into a fight with another passenger, and deciding to throw a hand grenade at your enemy instead of taking any other approach.
    - bingbong70 6y ago
      Many countries have shown they are stupid/shortsighted enough to do this, history makes this very clear. Study the actions of SAIMR in Africa and their plot to drive Africans to extinction using the AIDS virus and fake vaccines, purely for the sake of controlling African resources...that was the UK/US/SA/etc... govts and IA at work...they even assassinated a UN secretary general in the process. I wish man/nation-states/intelligence-agencies were as wise as you assume but history says no.
      - checker 6y ago
        That's kind of my point. Your examples still show planning into the selection of the attack vector and preparing for its effects... even if this is some 4D-chess to move the US off of the global supply chain, there are cheaper ways (and better germs) to do it. Interesting that UK/US/SA always the "bad" actor in your posts? Axe to grind? Couldn't this just as easily be construed as a 4D-chess move by China/Russia/SeaLand/MoonPeople to weaken the US economy since pandemic conditions naturally favor governments that can enforce stricter lockdowns? At the end of the day this type of speculation is a waste of time without substantiation.
        bingbong70 6y ago
        I can't ascribe specific motives to the actors but it is clear (has been clear for the past century) that large western economies/powers know exactly what they will lose with China rising. >Interesting that UK/US/SA always the "bad" actor in your posts? Axe to grind? China doesn't have a history of attacking Africans (ref. to my earlier example) or foreign countries in general for that matter...I specify this group (UK/US/SA/etc...) because they have a long history of putting economic interests over human life (especially foreign/indigenous life), continue to show that propensity to this day (zero sum mentality), and have deployed bioweapons around the world at various points over the centuries, in most cases, specifically for economic reasons. History says the shoe fits...not too long ago the US was testing bioweapons on their own unaware domestic population, older Californians are aware of this history.

Exactly. If there were an Anthrax outbreak in Ft. Detrick, MD, everyone would be immediately assuming the lab was involved. Wuhan is the Ft. Detrick of Coronaviruses.

aww_dang 6y ago

There were two incidents at that facility. The first led to a building being condemned. The second was a more nebulous investigation into the yet unsolved 2001 anthrax attacks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Hatfill#Lawsuits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Hatfill#Lawsuits

FabHK 6y ago

I wrote this on 2020-01-24 (when that speculation was fairly new), and wonder why that sort of simple statistical argument has rarely been made explicit: It certainly is an interesting coincidence that the only lab in China that can deal with it happens to be in Wuhan. The question is, how big of a coincidence. If the disease hit a random person randomly uniformly anywhere in China, the probability that it would have happened in Wuhan is a bit less than 1% (as there are about 10+m people in Wuhan, and 1400+m people in China). If you think it might have struck randomly any city above a million people in China uniformly, it’s also roundabout 1% (as there are about 100 of those). So this is by no means proof that something fishy happened, but it is significant enough to warrant investigation. If you assume that this could only have happened in a city with, say, more than 5m people, Wuhan is one of about 15 to 20 of those (so we're just above the "usual" 5% significance threshold). Still, an independent investigation of that lab seems warranted. Of course it’s China, so unlikely to happen... (I must say that I think the comment has stood the test of time, so far.)

bingbong70 6y ago
We are fitting information here...if a foreign actor were to drop covid-19 in a Chinese city, they would choose Wuhan for the same reasons you stated... China and many other countries in the global south have a long history of being the victim of US/Japan/UK germ warfare. Seems convenient/self-serving to ignore this multi-century trend.
- checker 6y ago
  If this was an attack it would be similar to being locked in a crowded elevator, getting into a fight with another passenger, and deciding to throw a hand grenade at your enemy instead of taking any other approach.
  - bingbong70 6y ago
    Many countries have shown they are stupid/shortsighted enough to do this, history makes this very clear. Study the actions of SAIMR in Africa and their plot to drive Africans to extinction using the AIDS virus and fake vaccines, purely for the sake of controlling African resources...that was the UK/US/SA/etc... govts and IA at work...they even assassinated a UN secretary general in the process. I wish man/nation-states/intelligence-agencies were as wise as you assume but history says no.
    - checker 6y ago
      That's kind of my point. Your examples still show planning into the selection of the attack vector and preparing for its effects... even if this is some 4D-chess to move the US off of the global supply chain, there are cheaper ways (and better germs) to do it. Interesting that UK/US/SA always the "bad" actor in your posts? Axe to grind? Couldn't this just as easily be construed as a 4D-chess move by China/Russia/SeaLand/MoonPeople to weaken the US economy since pandemic conditions naturally favor governments that can enforce stricter lockdowns? At the end of the day this type of speculation is a waste of time without substantiation.
      - bingbong70 6y ago
        I can't ascribe specific motives to the actors but it is clear (has been clear for the past century) that large western economies/powers know exactly what they will lose with China rising. >Interesting that UK/US/SA always the "bad" actor in your posts? Axe to grind? China doesn't have a history of attacking Africans (ref. to my earlier example) or foreign countries in general for that matter...I specify this group (UK/US/SA/etc...) because they have a long history of putting economic interests over human life (especially foreign/indigenous life), continue to show that propensity to this day (zero sum mentality), and have deployed bioweapons around the world at various points over the centuries, in most cases, specifically for economic reasons. History says the shoe fits...not too long ago the US was testing bioweapons on their own unaware domestic population, older Californians are aware of this history.