7 ms·

Unwanted Software Policy – Google

14 points by ehershey 6y ago

rolph 6y ago
wow! is this satire? or is this irony?
thesuperbigfrog 6y ago
"if we focus on the user, all else will follow" Hysterical laughter! Reader, Inbox, Google Play Music, ... Who is the user? Ad buyers? "It should be easy for users to disable or uninstall software." Does that include Android Auto, Google TV, and Youtube Music on my Pixel 5? I would love to delete them, but I am unable to.
- alpanka 6y ago
  Wait, these are not removable on pixel? You can't even disable them?? I am pretty sure I have none of these on any of my android devices. I have even removed the Google app.
  - thesuperbigfrog 6y ago
    I have a Pixel 5 running Android 11 and cannot delete those apps.
- kevincox 6y ago
  Unless I am mistaken you should be able to disable the apps which is effectively equivalent to removing them. They can't be removed because they are on the read-only system image but they should be treated the same was as if they weren't there if they are disabled. I agree that it would be nice if these weren't preinstalled at all but I don't find disabling to be that bad. Better than iOS for sure where the best you can do with most pre-installed apps is stuff them in a folder.
  - emayljames 6y ago
    I have never understood why there is no system by Google, where abandoned system apps are removed by the Play Store updater.
  - thesuperbigfrog 6y ago
    >> They can't be removed because they are on the read-only system image My question is: WHY are they part of the read-only system image? Is Google TV, YouTube Music, or Android Auto essential to making the phone work? If not, why can't I delete them? It seems like monopoly power in action to me.
  - xg15 6y ago
    > They can't be removed because they are on the read-only system image but they should be treated the same was as if they weren't there if they are disabled. The "just pretend I'm not here :)" of software development. It was a conscious decision to mark them as "system apps" and put them on the system partition. They didn't have to do that. Also note that android apps are more equivalent to plugins or shell extensions than executables. An app can register various OS hooks and callbacks that can trigger behaviour even if no process of that app is running. I'm not sure all those hooks are unregistered if an app is deactivated.
    - edoceo 6y ago
      It seems to me they are, I've disabled youtube and all youtube links open in Firefox, just as nature intended.
      - xg15 6y ago
        Ah, fair enough - I wasn't aware of that. If that's indeed what "deactivate" does, it's an option. It still seems wasteful for space to me and more prone to bugs (e.g. if some hook is forgotten in the disable routine).
jonathantf2 6y ago
"It tries to trick users into installing it or it piggybacks on the installation of another program" Doesn't Chrome do this with it's constant nag popops on Search if you're using any other browser, or how it's bundled with other software?
- lupire 6y ago
  > Doesn't Chrome do this with it's constant nag popops on Search if you're using any other browser, No, that isn't tricking it piggybacking. > or how it's bundled with other software? Does it install without user consent?
  - thatguy0900 6y ago
    >Does it install without user consent? This depends on whether you actually consider a small precheckmarked box buried 5 pages deep into a installer you are intended to mindlessly skip through clicking OK to the tiny legalese text to be consent or not
  - xg15 6y ago
    Not sure if they still do it but Chrome absolutely used to fulfill the "trick user into installing it" criterion: It was frequently bundled with other software and auto-installed unless you unchecked a box deeply hidden in an "advanced settings" screen.
xg15 6y ago
> If the software makes updates, it should provide a clear notification to the user. The user must have a meaningful opportunity to review and approve any principal and significant updates or settings changes. ...or I guess, just do it like Chrome and don't even tell the user that you have automatic updates.
edoceo 6y ago
It's funny that unwanted software (Google Meet) is forcibly presented to me in both Mail apps (android/pixel3) and in calendar invites too. Using Mail and Cal to push Meet. Extra, repeated clicks to keep Meet out of the equation. It's confused more than one invitee who sees the Meet "suggestion" and missed the proper Zoom link.

14 points by ehershey 6y ago

wow! is this satire? or is this irony?

"if we focus on the user, all else will follow" Hysterical laughter! Reader, Inbox, Google Play Music, ... Who is the user? Ad buyers? "It should be easy for users to disable or uninstall software." Does that include Android Auto, Google TV, and Youtube Music on my Pixel 5? I would love to delete them, but I am unable to.

alpanka 6y ago
Wait, these are not removable on pixel? You can't even disable them?? I am pretty sure I have none of these on any of my android devices. I have even removed the Google app.
- thesuperbigfrog 6y ago
  I have a Pixel 5 running Android 11 and cannot delete those apps.
kevincox 6y ago
Unless I am mistaken you should be able to disable the apps which is effectively equivalent to removing them. They can't be removed because they are on the read-only system image but they should be treated the same was as if they weren't there if they are disabled. I agree that it would be nice if these weren't preinstalled at all but I don't find disabling to be that bad. Better than iOS for sure where the best you can do with most pre-installed apps is stuff them in a folder.
- emayljames 6y ago
  I have never understood why there is no system by Google, where abandoned system apps are removed by the Play Store updater.
- thesuperbigfrog 6y ago
  >> They can't be removed because they are on the read-only system image My question is: WHY are they part of the read-only system image? Is Google TV, YouTube Music, or Android Auto essential to making the phone work? If not, why can't I delete them? It seems like monopoly power in action to me.
- xg15 6y ago
  > They can't be removed because they are on the read-only system image but they should be treated the same was as if they weren't there if they are disabled. The "just pretend I'm not here :)" of software development. It was a conscious decision to mark them as "system apps" and put them on the system partition. They didn't have to do that. Also note that android apps are more equivalent to plugins or shell extensions than executables. An app can register various OS hooks and callbacks that can trigger behaviour even if no process of that app is running. I'm not sure all those hooks are unregistered if an app is deactivated.
  - edoceo 6y ago
    It seems to me they are, I've disabled youtube and all youtube links open in Firefox, just as nature intended.
    - xg15 6y ago
      Ah, fair enough - I wasn't aware of that. If that's indeed what "deactivate" does, it's an option. It still seems wasteful for space to me and more prone to bugs (e.g. if some hook is forgotten in the disable routine).

jonathantf2 6y ago

"It tries to trick users into installing it or it piggybacks on the installation of another program" Doesn't Chrome do this with it's constant nag popops on Search if you're using any other browser, or how it's bundled with other software?

lupire 6y ago
> Doesn't Chrome do this with it's constant nag popops on Search if you're using any other browser, No, that isn't tricking it piggybacking. > or how it's bundled with other software? Does it install without user consent?
- thatguy0900 6y ago
  >Does it install without user consent? This depends on whether you actually consider a small precheckmarked box buried 5 pages deep into a installer you are intended to mindlessly skip through clicking OK to the tiny legalese text to be consent or not
- xg15 6y ago
  Not sure if they still do it but Chrome absolutely used to fulfill the "trick user into installing it" criterion: It was frequently bundled with other software and auto-installed unless you unchecked a box deeply hidden in an "advanced settings" screen.

xg15 6y ago

> If the software makes updates, it should provide a clear notification to the user. The user must have a meaningful opportunity to review and approve any principal and significant updates or settings changes. ...or I guess, just do it like Chrome and don't even tell the user that you have automatic updates.

edoceo 6y ago

It's funny that unwanted software (Google Meet) is forcibly presented to me in both Mail apps (android/pixel3) and in calendar invites too. Using Mail and Cal to push Meet. Extra, repeated clicks to keep Meet out of the equation. It's confused more than one invitee who sees the Meet "suggestion" and missed the proper Zoom link.