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Why Kotlin when you got Swift is an equally valid point. People like choice and for a lot of us, running on the JVM is a non starter. Try creating a small comm

Why Kotlin when you got Swift is an equally valid point. People like choice and for a lot of us, running on the JVM is a non starter. Try creating a small command line tool for a JVM language. You need to distribute a virtual machine with it. You got the overhead of firing up a VM or JIT just for a short lived session. Also JVM gobbles memory. You would not want a system made up of lots of tiny command line tools all running on a JVM. That would be a lot of overhead.

himujjal 6y ago
kotlin/native doesnt require jvm swift support for windows is non-existent
- eyelidlessness 6y ago
  > swift support for windows is non-existent I was prepared to suggest WSL, but apparently Swift support for Windows is existent[1]. 1: https://swift.org/blog/swift-on-windows/ https://swift.org/blog/swift-on-windows/
dm3 6y ago
This information was true a few years ago. Now, with modular JVM you do not ship a VM with the program. JVM by itself is lean and starts up pretty fast. You can also compile to native with GraalVM - this is a viable option if you want to write lots of tiny command line tools. See Babashka[0] for an example scripting toolkit written in Clojure. [0]: https://github.com/babashka/babashka https://github.com/babashka/babashka
pjmlp 6y ago
Since 2000 AOT compiling into native code has been available to Java developers, no different from using something like Go. That many didn't want to buy those compilers and settled with the free beer that could get hold of is another matter.
- cb321 6y ago
  Just to corroborate - with gcc's gcj Java folk could get compilation to an ELF binary for free as well. I was profiling such in 2004. This was unpopular/unmaintained enough that eventually gcc discontinued it. Sadly, people often confuse "prevailing mindset of the noisiest authorities of some programming language" with "the programming language itself" { not that this is the only confusion or maybe even the worst... :-) }

himujjal 6y ago

kotlin/native doesnt require jvm swift support for windows is non-existent

eyelidlessness 6y ago
> swift support for windows is non-existent I was prepared to suggest WSL, but apparently Swift support for Windows is existent[1]. 1: https://swift.org/blog/swift-on-windows/ https://swift.org/blog/swift-on-windows/

dm3 6y ago

This information was true a few years ago. Now, with modular JVM you do not ship a VM with the program. JVM by itself is lean and starts up pretty fast. You can also compile to native with GraalVM - this is a viable option if you want to write lots of tiny command line tools. See Babashka[0] for an example scripting toolkit written in Clojure. [0]: https://github.com/babashka/babashka https://github.com/babashka/babashka

pjmlp 6y ago

Since 2000 AOT compiling into native code has been available to Java developers, no different from using something like Go. That many didn't want to buy those compilers and settled with the free beer that could get hold of is another matter.

cb321 6y ago
Just to corroborate - with gcc's gcj Java folk could get compilation to an ELF binary for free as well. I was profiling such in 2004. This was unpopular/unmaintained enough that eventually gcc discontinued it. Sadly, people often confuse "prevailing mindset of the noisiest authorities of some programming language" with "the programming language itself" { not that this is the only confusion or maybe even the worst... :-) }