18 ms·

So why the UK/US numbers are way ahead of EU?

mpweiher 6y ago
Because around half the EU production is exported whereas until a few days ago exactly 0% of the US and UK production were. "Until a few days ago" because the US just recently agreed to send some vaccine to Canada. For the first time. Canada had been getting vaccine produced in the EU. UK is still at 0.
- goddess33 6y ago
  Right about USA. Wrong about UK. USA has effectively banned export. UK signed a better deal (https://www.politico.eu/article/the-key-differences-between-the-eu-and-uk-astrazeneca-contracts/ https://www.politico.eu/article/the-key-differences-between-...), three months earlier, and as a result all AZ vaccine produced domestically in the UK is going to UK Citizens, and they are higher up the queue for AZ product manufactured in the EU. This produces the same effect as an export ban (i.e. domestic production used entirely by country), but is really just the result of competent procurement. https://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2021/01/26/news/interview_pascal_soriot_ceo_astrazeneca_coronavirus_covid_vaccines-284349628/ https://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2021/01/26/news/interview_... EU shat the bed by penny pinching. Don't paint incompetence as "humanitarian efforts"
  - apexalpha 6y ago
    The EU shat the bed by not banning all exports just like the US did. It's insane to me that the EU allowed 41 million vaccine doses produced INSIDE the EU to be exported to other countries while Europeans are dying and in lockdown.
    - mpweiher 6y ago
      > by not banning all exports just like the US did and of course the UK did as well, as the previous poster kindly pointed out: > This produces the same effect as an export ban How exactly you achieve being an egotistical sociopath seems a secondary concern. Now of course both the US and the UK were in extremely dire straits at the tine, with by far the worst outcomes. So I guess that behavior is at least somewhat understandable when you have your back against the wall. Doesn't really make it any better, though.
      - goddess33 6y ago
        Is a government securing vaccines for their population "egotistic and sociopathic"
      - _benedict 6y ago
        All of the mentioned actors are egotistical sociopaths in your example, as the EU is not talking about equitable access, only access for its own citizens. If you care about equitable access you should be praising the UK, and in particular Oxford, for making its vaccine available at cost, and for having dedicated supply chains already established for poorer nations. There's still plenty to criticise, but the current framing demonstrates the egocentrism of all of the actors.
        mpweiher 6y ago
        Hmm...the EU has exported 50% of its vaccine production. The UK: 0% The US: 0% until a few days ago.
        hef19898 6y ago
        And ordered 100% more than needed for the EU in order to supply other nations with that. The UK did the same so.
        mpweiher 6y ago
        Except that the EU isn't getting the doses it ordered, and the shortfall is significant, and it has actually exported a significant chunk. Whereas the UK is getting the doses it ordered, at the EU's expense, and has not actually exported any. So. Not exactly the same.
        _benedict 6y ago
        The U.K. is also experiencing a significant shortfall in doses compared to those that were projected to be delivered by AZ. Production yields have been lower across the board according to Oxford researchers involved in the scale up, and several delivery milestones were missed for the U.K.
    - herbst 6y ago
      It would be insane to hold this necessary vaccine back from the world just to serve egoistic purposes. Just because the EU has good production infrastructure should not make them the “winner“ in some world wide “vaxing race“
hef19898 6y ago
Good question. Based on my experience in SCM I would say a combination of circumstances, luck and better management. The UK had a head start (due to earlier approval of the AZ vaccine, they were the second ones after the Russins and before the US), of one and a half months or so. The UK gotlucky that AZs prodution in the UK went smoother than the one in Belgium. And cirumstances are in favour of the UK, initial deliviery volumes are low accross the board, regardless of supplier, and a smaller population allows higher per capita numbers in these cases. The main reason so, IMHO, is the UKs approach and management of the campaign. With NHS, theUK coud build upon one entitiy to run things, the UK streched the second shot and didn't hold inventory back for it. And the UK seems to have proper operational supply chain management in place. The EU (meaning individual member states) on the other hand has a larger population, at least 27 individual entities (Germany adds 16 individual states to that), o central planning (Germany has none on the federal level and I haven't seen any on state level so far neither), no coherent strategy. Appointment managment doesn't work. The EU also screwed up supply by ordering more in january (volumes that weren't needed) which resulted in further delays. And the list goes on. In a nut shell, the UK didnt screw with the suppliers supply chains up to end f production and has a grip on the down stream supply chain up to peoples arms. The EU screwed with suppliers and has zero plan about everything after doses are delivered to a national distribution hub. EDIT: The EU has to coordinate 27 nations and has to avoid an EU-internal bidding war. The UK doesn't.
- _benedict 6y ago
  It's worth remembering the UK bought 3x as many doses per capita than the EU (of AZ), and its domestic manufacturing capacity anyway has to serve a much smaller population. The luck in large part is the Ox/AZ was successful and fast, and the UK had placed a very large order for it.
  - hef19898 6y ago
    Yep. The EU on the other hand spread the risk across multiple suppliers. One of which fell through so far, Sanofi if memory serves well. I for my part have no issue with the procurement strategy. The contracts, assuming they are all similar to the AZ one, are crap so. And after contract signature, the EU basically took a step back. The EU did tell member states that logistics will be critical, and that logistics will be up to member states to sort out. Kind of right, but also kind of lazy. Even lazier are member states that failed to sort logistics out. Especially those that were fast to blame the EU for that.

Because around half the EU production is exported whereas until a few days ago exactly 0% of the US and UK production were. "Until a few days ago" because the US just recently agreed to send some vaccine to Canada. For the first time. Canada had been getting vaccine produced in the EU. UK is still at 0.

goddess33 6y ago
Right about USA. Wrong about UK. USA has effectively banned export. UK signed a better deal (https://www.politico.eu/article/the-key-differences-between-the-eu-and-uk-astrazeneca-contracts/ https://www.politico.eu/article/the-key-differences-between-...), three months earlier, and as a result all AZ vaccine produced domestically in the UK is going to UK Citizens, and they are higher up the queue for AZ product manufactured in the EU. This produces the same effect as an export ban (i.e. domestic production used entirely by country), but is really just the result of competent procurement. https://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2021/01/26/news/interview_pascal_soriot_ceo_astrazeneca_coronavirus_covid_vaccines-284349628/ https://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2021/01/26/news/interview_... EU shat the bed by penny pinching. Don't paint incompetence as "humanitarian efforts"
- apexalpha 6y ago
  The EU shat the bed by not banning all exports just like the US did. It's insane to me that the EU allowed 41 million vaccine doses produced INSIDE the EU to be exported to other countries while Europeans are dying and in lockdown.
  - mpweiher 6y ago
    > by not banning all exports just like the US did and of course the UK did as well, as the previous poster kindly pointed out: > This produces the same effect as an export ban How exactly you achieve being an egotistical sociopath seems a secondary concern. Now of course both the US and the UK were in extremely dire straits at the tine, with by far the worst outcomes. So I guess that behavior is at least somewhat understandable when you have your back against the wall. Doesn't really make it any better, though.
    - goddess33 6y ago
      Is a government securing vaccines for their population "egotistic and sociopathic"
    - _benedict 6y ago
      All of the mentioned actors are egotistical sociopaths in your example, as the EU is not talking about equitable access, only access for its own citizens. If you care about equitable access you should be praising the UK, and in particular Oxford, for making its vaccine available at cost, and for having dedicated supply chains already established for poorer nations. There's still plenty to criticise, but the current framing demonstrates the egocentrism of all of the actors.
      - mpweiher 6y ago
        Hmm...the EU has exported 50% of its vaccine production. The UK: 0% The US: 0% until a few days ago.
        hef19898 6y ago
        And ordered 100% more than needed for the EU in order to supply other nations with that. The UK did the same so.
        mpweiher 6y ago
        Except that the EU isn't getting the doses it ordered, and the shortfall is significant, and it has actually exported a significant chunk. Whereas the UK is getting the doses it ordered, at the EU's expense, and has not actually exported any. So. Not exactly the same.
        _benedict 6y ago
        The U.K. is also experiencing a significant shortfall in doses compared to those that were projected to be delivered by AZ. Production yields have been lower across the board according to Oxford researchers involved in the scale up, and several delivery milestones were missed for the U.K.
  - herbst 6y ago
    It would be insane to hold this necessary vaccine back from the world just to serve egoistic purposes. Just because the EU has good production infrastructure should not make them the “winner“ in some world wide “vaxing race“

hef19898 6y ago

Good question. Based on my experience in SCM I would say a combination of circumstances, luck and better management. The UK had a head start (due to earlier approval of the AZ vaccine, they were the second ones after the Russins and before the US), of one and a half months or so. The UK gotlucky that AZs prodution in the UK went smoother than the one in Belgium. And cirumstances are in favour of the UK, initial deliviery volumes are low accross the board, regardless of supplier, and a smaller population allows higher per capita numbers in these cases. The main reason so, IMHO, is the UKs approach and management of the campaign. With NHS, theUK coud build upon one entitiy to run things, the UK streched the second shot and didn't hold inventory back for it. And the UK seems to have proper operational supply chain management in place. The EU (meaning individual member states) on the other hand has a larger population, at least 27 individual entities (Germany adds 16 individual states to that), o central planning (Germany has none on the federal level and I haven't seen any on state level so far neither), no coherent strategy. Appointment managment doesn't work. The EU also screwed up supply by ordering more in january (volumes that weren't needed) which resulted in further delays. And the list goes on. In a nut shell, the UK didnt screw with the suppliers supply chains up to end f production and has a grip on the down stream supply chain up to peoples arms. The EU screwed with suppliers and has zero plan about everything after doses are delivered to a national distribution hub. EDIT: The EU has to coordinate 27 nations and has to avoid an EU-internal bidding war. The UK doesn't.

_benedict 6y ago
It's worth remembering the UK bought 3x as many doses per capita than the EU (of AZ), and its domestic manufacturing capacity anyway has to serve a much smaller population. The luck in large part is the Ox/AZ was successful and fast, and the UK had placed a very large order for it.
- hef19898 6y ago
  Yep. The EU on the other hand spread the risk across multiple suppliers. One of which fell through so far, Sanofi if memory serves well. I for my part have no issue with the procurement strategy. The contracts, assuming they are all similar to the AZ one, are crap so. And after contract signature, the EU basically took a step back. The EU did tell member states that logistics will be critical, and that logistics will be up to member states to sort out. Kind of right, but also kind of lazy. Even lazier are member states that failed to sort logistics out. Especially those that were fast to blame the EU for that.