4 ms·

I have no knowledge beyond what I just heard from you. That sounded implausible. The country which had the ability to negotiate that happened to be the same co

I have no knowledge beyond what I just heard from you. That sounded implausible. The country which had the ability to negotiate that happened to be the same country where the doses were manufactured? Why couldn't the UK apply its careful negotiating skills elsewhere too? Alternative hypothesis: the credible implicit or explicit threats of a ban were what enabled the deal. "Sign this or else."

petr_tik 6y ago
Even if the UK was threatening AZ with an export ban, they didn’t force AZ to accept those terms. AZ could have just said no and made the U.K. government look incompetent and unleashed media scrutiny on BoJo. Yes, having the industrial base is part of the attraction of the UK for pharmaceutical companies. As is having a skilled workforce and a reliable system of laws. I’m rejecting your original point about the U.S. and U.K. doing the same thing, which they aren’t.
- aktuel 6y ago
  Well, the motivation and effect is exactly the same which is what most people care about in the end. It's a nationalistic move which is what makes your day if you're a nationalist.
cameronh90 6y ago
The UK government provided a lot of the money to AZ to build out the local vaccine supply chain and factories. Those factories most likely wouldn't exist unless the UK government had paid that money. So, as part of paying for all that, they asked for timed exclusively. Also remember the vaccine was developed by Oxford using a significant amount of UK government funding, and was licensed to other countries, such as India, for low cost manufacturing. We did also buy a lot of vaccine from other places (e.g. Pfizer which is also being widely deployed). But with AZ in particular (and to some extent Novavax) there was a focus on building a local supply chain so that countries can't play games with our vaccine supply. Supposedly Pfizer turned down the offer to build UK based factories.
- mpweiher 6y ago
  > The UK government provided a lot of the money to AZ to build out the local vaccine supply chain and factories So did the EU. > Also remember the vaccine was developed by Oxford using a significant amount of UK government funding And Biontech was developed with German funding. Did Germany insist on exclusivity? Maybe we should have...
  - vanilla-almond 6y ago
    - The vaccine is mainly funded by Oxford University and AstraZeneca (AZ) . The UK Government also provided £65.5m. - Most of the AZ vaccine for the UK is being made in the UK. AZ have said none of their vaccines have been sent from the EU to the UK. - AstraZeneca said its agreement with the EU allowed the option of supplying Europe from UK sites, but only once the UK had sufficient supplies (due to the contract the UK negotiated) . - A drop in confidence in the AZ vaccine means there are lots of unused vaccines. France and Germany have used only about half of the AstraZeneca jabs they have received, according to the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control (ECDC). - 10 million Pfizer-BioNTech vaccines have been exported from the EU to the UK. Sources: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/56483766 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/56483766 https://www.politico.eu/article/the-key-differences-between-the-eu-and-uk-astrazeneca-contracts/ https://www.politico.eu/article/the-key-differences-between-...
    - mavhc 6y ago
      Are there really a lot of unused vaccines in Europe though? What are the equivalent numbers for other countries? I submit it's a supply chain thing, there's a week's worth of vaccines moving from the factory to the humans
      - helij 6y ago
        No there are not. Those are second doses. In EU they 'reserved' second doses. UK for example went on to vaccinate as much as possible. That's why there will be a delay now of a month or two.
    - 6y ago
mjcl 6y ago
Another hypothesis: Oxford was originally going to partner with Merck [1] but there were no supply guarantees in that contract. AstraZeneca was willing to give guarantees and run production in the UK, so the UK government leaned on Oxford and had them partner with the more agreeable supplier. [1] https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-rejected-contracts-and-a-hollywood-movie-how-uk-struck-deal-to-guarantee-vaccine-supply-12204044 https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-rejected-contracts-and-a...
_benedict 6y ago
I don’t know why you presuppose the U.K. is where it would have had to be manufactured. Manufacture in the U.K. appears to have been made to happen at the insistence and investment of the U.K. government, from my recollection of a thread by an Oxford researcher involved. There appears to be a similar deal with Novavax to setup similar domestic capacity in the UK for its vaccine.

petr_tik 6y ago

Even if the UK was threatening AZ with an export ban, they didn’t force AZ to accept those terms. AZ could have just said no and made the U.K. government look incompetent and unleashed media scrutiny on BoJo. Yes, having the industrial base is part of the attraction of the UK for pharmaceutical companies. As is having a skilled workforce and a reliable system of laws. I’m rejecting your original point about the U.S. and U.K. doing the same thing, which they aren’t.

aktuel 6y ago
Well, the motivation and effect is exactly the same which is what most people care about in the end. It's a nationalistic move which is what makes your day if you're a nationalist.

cameronh90 6y ago

The UK government provided a lot of the money to AZ to build out the local vaccine supply chain and factories. Those factories most likely wouldn't exist unless the UK government had paid that money. So, as part of paying for all that, they asked for timed exclusively. Also remember the vaccine was developed by Oxford using a significant amount of UK government funding, and was licensed to other countries, such as India, for low cost manufacturing. We did also buy a lot of vaccine from other places (e.g. Pfizer which is also being widely deployed). But with AZ in particular (and to some extent Novavax) there was a focus on building a local supply chain so that countries can't play games with our vaccine supply. Supposedly Pfizer turned down the offer to build UK based factories.

mpweiher 6y ago
> The UK government provided a lot of the money to AZ to build out the local vaccine supply chain and factories So did the EU. > Also remember the vaccine was developed by Oxford using a significant amount of UK government funding And Biontech was developed with German funding. Did Germany insist on exclusivity? Maybe we should have...
- vanilla-almond 6y ago
  - The vaccine is mainly funded by Oxford University and AstraZeneca (AZ) . The UK Government also provided £65.5m. - Most of the AZ vaccine for the UK is being made in the UK. AZ have said none of their vaccines have been sent from the EU to the UK. - AstraZeneca said its agreement with the EU allowed the option of supplying Europe from UK sites, but only once the UK had sufficient supplies (due to the contract the UK negotiated) . - A drop in confidence in the AZ vaccine means there are lots of unused vaccines. France and Germany have used only about half of the AstraZeneca jabs they have received, according to the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control (ECDC). - 10 million Pfizer-BioNTech vaccines have been exported from the EU to the UK. Sources: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/56483766 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/56483766 https://www.politico.eu/article/the-key-differences-between-the-eu-and-uk-astrazeneca-contracts/ https://www.politico.eu/article/the-key-differences-between-...
  - mavhc 6y ago
    Are there really a lot of unused vaccines in Europe though? What are the equivalent numbers for other countries? I submit it's a supply chain thing, there's a week's worth of vaccines moving from the factory to the humans
    - helij 6y ago
      No there are not. Those are second doses. In EU they 'reserved' second doses. UK for example went on to vaccinate as much as possible. That's why there will be a delay now of a month or two.
  - 6y ago

mjcl 6y ago

Another hypothesis: Oxford was originally going to partner with Merck [1] but there were no supply guarantees in that contract. AstraZeneca was willing to give guarantees and run production in the UK, so the UK government leaned on Oxford and had them partner with the more agreeable supplier. [1] https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-rejected-contracts-and-a-hollywood-movie-how-uk-struck-deal-to-guarantee-vaccine-supply-12204044 https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-rejected-contracts-and-a...

_benedict 6y ago

I don’t know why you presuppose the U.K. is where it would have had to be manufactured. Manufacture in the U.K. appears to have been made to happen at the insistence and investment of the U.K. government, from my recollection of a thread by an Oxford researcher involved. There appears to be a similar deal with Novavax to setup similar domestic capacity in the UK for its vaccine.