10 ms·

I actually blame Johnny Ive for this clusterf*ck. Ive famously pursued a crusade for thinness. It's said that design is the art of compromise. Well, Ive took a

• SilverRed 6y ago
  I recently had the choice between a macbook pro and a dell xps. Saw the dell xps had HDMI, USB-C _and_ USB-A and was sold. Its nice to be able to bring my laptop in to a meeting room and just be able to plug in the hdmi cable without needing an adapter. Its also really nice to be able to use all my usb c accessories but without having to go usb C only. And its not noticeably thicker than the macbook either. I can understand the pursuit of thinness or at least weight reduction in mobile devices. If the iPad was any heavier, you wouldn't be able to use it while standing. But on a laptop there is a lot more room for weight and thickness. As log as its comfortable to carry, that's good enough.
  • Goosee 6y ago
    I use to have the same thought process as you: instantly sold on devices with native hdmi, usb a & usb c. By that metric xps beats macbook. Recently I tried to convert to a windows laptop from my 16 inch mbp. Upon switching I was constantly annoyed by the fan noise & using my pinkie to press the 'control' key opposed to macbook thumb on 'command' key. The point is, I realized native port selection was not a metric to consider when purchasing a laptop. I am fine bringing an adapter to the meeting room. I guess it comes down to what you value. I am just trying to play 'devil's advocate' with my anecdotal experience compared to your experience.
    • SilverRed 6y ago
      I found the fan noise to be horrific on the 13in i5 macbook I was using. The thing was overheating constantly and since I use linux and windows at home, having the cmd key different only while working was a huge annoyance for me. On my dell xps 15 I almost never hear the fans at all and there is usually only a quick burst of fan noise when running a webpack compile or something compared to non stop 80% fans on the mbp. There are far more things that made the dell xps a better choice and ports was just one of them but still a very important one. USB-C adapters are pretty cheap but USB-C hubs are $100+ and have been a constant source of frustration when they keep failing unless you buy the most expensive ones.
      • arcticbull 6y ago
        The M1's are dead silent, cold to the touch under all circumstances and dramatically faster. That was Intel, as it turns out, so if that was a big decision driver, I'd take another look!
      • mssundaram 6y ago
        Use Karabiner Elements on macOS to switch the command key to what you want. And actually, I'm pretty sure it's possible in the built-in macOS settings, but I've always used that app for complex programmatic mappings.
      • brailsafe 6y ago
        Aren't all good hubs quite costly though? I just use a shitty little USB-C adapter + usb cable, and my monitor acts as the hub. I agree about the fan noise.
      • mszcz 6y ago
        I recently upgraded/switched my dev machine from a desktop (Intel NUC Hades Canyon) to a Lenovo Legion 5-15 ARH "gaming" laptop with 32GB, 2xM.2 and Ryzen 4800H (more mobile, more pandemic friendly). It's a big laptop by XPS13 standards sure, but one that's appropriately cooled. I hadn't been aware, up to that point, how much the fans bothered me. This thing is quick but at the same time real quiet. After some time I turned the NUC on for some reason, the funs launched into overdrive and I suddenly got annoyed.
  • philliphaydon 6y ago
    Work gave me an XSP And I gave it back. One of the worst laptops. They used to be really good but the thing runs so hot and loud compared to my Lenovo. And still nothing beats Lenovo keyboard.
  • 2muchcoffeeman 6y ago
    I recently had the choice between a macbook pro and a dell xps. Saw the dell xps had HDMI, USB-C _and_ USB-A and was sold. Enjoy it while it lasts, the current XPS generation is USB-C only.
  • 650REDHAIR 6y ago
    My XPS 9550 had two batteries swell and the 2nd time it broke my upper case and trackpad. I replaced the case, trackpad, and keyboard, but Dell won't sell me a battery and their batteries have DRM so you can't use a 3rd party unit. My top of the line, i7, 32gb ram, 2gb gpu, 1tb nvme drive laptop is now no better than a paperweight. When plugged into shore power you can't get max CPU or GPU power and it's an annoying mess to deal with so it's just sitting. I now own an X1 Carbon 7th gen and a 2020 i5 MBP and love them both. I'm traveling more than ever (bought a camper van to get out of the city center) and they are typically more abused than the XPS ever was. No problems at all. Shit, my 8 and 10 year old MBPs are still running after giving them away to friends in need. I have a thin Anker dongle that has type a ports, ethernet, hdmi, and type c and a couple cheap backups in various bags. It's a small price to pay and all of our devices save the iPhone are type C now so I am slowing moving to one cord for everything. Anyway...I'll never buy another Dell for the rest of my life. End rant
    • protomyth 6y ago
      Dell won't sell me a battery and their batteries have DRM so you can't use a 3rd party unit Dell is horrible for this type of stuff. Had to retire a server early because of this type of policy. I wouldn't recommend them at all.
    • SilverRed 6y ago
      This is a horror story and its bigger than just dell. Replacing a macbook battery is virtually impossible as well. IMO this is a problem that needs government action. The right to repair laws should include that ALL consumer electronics which use a battery have a serviceable battery and that parts be sold for x years.
    • InvaderFizz 6y ago
      > Dell won't sell me a battery and their batteries have DRM so you can't use a 3rd party unit. Are you sure you can't use a third party battery? Plenty of hits on Amazon for Chinese branded ones. I replaced a XPS 9570 battery with a Chinese one a few months ago, seems fine to me.
      • 6y ago
  • midrus 6y ago
    I understand some people do need all these ports, but in my experience (and opinion) an XPS is worse in every other metric. The trackpad is terrible, the sound is terrible, the screen is worse, the webcam is not as good. I cannot use windows so I have to use Linux, which brings a good bunch of its problems such as external screen with different resolutions, having to setup scaling for many applications individually, and always being the last guy to join meetings because every day I have a different problems switching to my usb headset, etc. I ended up going back to a macbook pro. The XPS hardware might look as good in the specs, but it won't last for more than 2 years, it crackles everywhere and the paint (in the trackpad, for example) wears off pretty easily if you use it every day. So, yes, I'd love macbooks to have more ports, but by no metric that problem alone would lead me to prefer it over an XPS. Just my preference/experience anyway.
    • nightowl_games 6y ago
      I have XPS's and MacBooks in my house. For the record, none of the XPS's have HDMI or USBA. They have for several years. That's a shame. But in addition, none of the other things you mentioned are worse on the XPS. I bought one cause I prefer Linux, my wife got one because it was 1k$ cheaper than the comparable MacBook. She's a designer and the screen is 100% Adobe RGB coverage. The XPS and MacBook, from a hardware perspective, are basically equivalent. Its a shame they both took the ports out.
  • darkwater 6y ago
    > I recently had the choice between a macbook pro and a dell xps Which XPS? My XPS 13 9300 has just 2 USB-C ports and a micro-SD slot (I don't mind carrying a small USB-C to everything adapter TBH, you can even have ethernet and VGA with that)
• jghn 6y ago
  YMMV. My 12" retina MacBook was perhaps my favorite machine I've owned. I have a M1 Air now, I like it as well. There are some pros and cons to both. I do still miss the smaller form factor.
  • spinningarrow 6y ago
    Mine too! I loved how incredibly light it was. I never had to think twice about taking it somewhere with me. I rarely used the port for anything other than charging, so it wasn’t too much of a hassle. Definitely disliked the keyboard though (I had the first generation).
    • jghn 6y ago
      I kept mine instead of trading it in for the post-pandemic era. Similar to you, I could throw it in a bag and not even notice it was there. It was perfect for carrying around, traveling, etc.
      • sjwright 6y ago
        I have exactly the same feeling about the form factor but even with the maxxed-out spec (2017 with i7 and 16GB of RAM) it feels underpowered even when doing fairly basic tasks. And though I'm sure it's mostly psychological, the keyboard feels delicate. The M1 Air is a bit bigger, but that two centimetres of width does go to good use with a bigger screen (with more pixels), a bigger trackpad, and a bigger battery.
  • mercantile 6y ago
    I agree — the 12" is still Apple's best ever form factor. I even considered buying another one as the line was winding down. (Though was glad I didn't after the M1 came out.) But to be fair, the comment you're replying to is talking specifically about the 12" MacBook's keyboard, which is indeed awful. I'm typing on one right now, and even after years on the thing, it's a perpetual reminder of how they're slower to type on, and kind of make your fingers hurt. Remove the butterfly keyboard, add a second port, and the 12" MacBook gets unequivocally better.
• irjustin 6y ago
  FWIW, I enjoy the touch bar. I have a few custom keys, one which runs a script that finds my airpods, connects, turns on eq (boom), starts spotify, sets volume my normal level, hits play. I do hate it when the touchbar crashes and requires a reboot, but I've gotten so much milage out of my script keys that I'd rather keep it.
  • spicybright 6y ago
    Touchbar is useless without BetterTouchTool for me. I have buttons to open notes files, open my jira with tap, a strip with scrollable weather, screenshot buttons, automated settings control (like the security screen) and finger gestures. Swipe left and right with 2 fingers for volume control, 3 for brightness, 4 for keyboard backlight. It feels so smooth and natural to change the volume that way. It can do a ton though. best 7 bucks I've spent, and makes me want a touchbar on all my laptops from now own, surprisingly.
  • soheil 6y ago
    Please don't say that publicly, you might give Apple ideas to bring it back. F*ck touch bar.
  • robinsonrc 6y ago
    I like this general idea and indeed do similar things, but I’d personally much rather use regular keyboard shortcuts powered by something like Alfred than rely on the Touch Bar
  • gnicholas 6y ago
    > I do hate it when the touchbar crashes and requires a reboot I don't even want to consider the possibility of my keyboard crashing. Imagine if that happened on iOS! Input devices have to be 100% rock-solid.
• onelovetwo 6y ago
  Johnny Ive is probably the best thing to Apple since Jobs. Be aware hes not doing the engineering (which is the problem in this case)
• TheRealSteel 6y ago
  I don't believe the Air got rid of the Touch Bar -- it never had it. It was only on the Pro. What's so "Pro" about replacing the useful function keys (including the escape key) with a bar that does nothing but pick emojis is beyond me. I strongly dislike the Touch Bar. I'm typing this on a 2019 MacBook Pro whose Touch Bar died yesterday, leaving me with no escape key, no volume buttons, no keyboard brightness buttons, and no play/pause button -- leaving me to do all of those in software -- including escape. I never found a single useful purpose for the Touch Bar's main mode, so from about two weeks after I bought it, it's been set to simply show function keys ("expanded control strip"). This means I have function keys that accidentally activate when I'm trying to type numbers, that timeout and disappear to save battery, that can't be 'hovered' (touching without pressing) and that have no tactile feedback, slowing you down by forcing you to look away from the screen. And now - I've lost the entire row.
  • ayyy 6y ago
    Protip: remap capslock to escape. It's supported in the OS settings.
    • TheRealSteel 6y ago
      That's what I've done, but I hate having to adjust my typing habit. It's annoying enough that thanks to the touch bar I'm now incapable of typing escape on any other computer (because I'm in the habit of merely touching escape, not pushing it), now I have to adjust again and I'm going to be in the habit of pushing caps lock.
      • ayyy 6y ago
        That's actually a good habit to build. Here's a windows utility you might find useful: https://github.com/susam/uncap https://github.com/susam/uncap And here's an editor that's accommodating to your newly trained typing skills ;) https://www.vim.org/ https://www.vim.org/
        • 650REDHAIR 6y ago
• marshmallow_12 6y ago
  complain as much as you like, and you may be mostly correct. But you overlooked one absolutely brilliant piece of Apple technology: the ipod nano 7. (insert hysterical laughter). Make fun if you want, it's obsolete, only 16gb, poor battery, old bluetooth etc. You are right, but i challenge anyone to show me anything comparable, with such a good touchscreen, that is slim enough that you don't feel it in your pocket. Every mm matters, and the nano 7 has no parallel afaik. We will look back in 20 and speak with hushed awe about how well packaged the nano 7. You rail against ive's crusade, but it isn't all bad news. Rip iPod
  • kube-system 6y ago
    What do you need pockets for? Did you forget the 3rd gen iPod Shuffle?
    • marshmallow_12 6y ago
      I fail to see any point in the Shuffle. Way too much money for something without a screen. The 7 otoh could have had better specs, but as far as the screen, casing, buttons etc are concerned, it is perfection itself. When i hold it i am aware that it is the most complete product in it's class. For all time. Period. And also, the Shuffle has a clip i think. That pointless, dumb thing that ruined the 6. I doubt ive had much to say about that clip.
  • dencodev 6y ago
    My dream smart phone is nano 7 dimensions but with an edge to edge screen
  • 2muchcoffeeman 6y ago
    The 6th Gen was the best! Super small, built in clip.
    • marshmallow_12 6y ago
      I hate that clip. even Though it would have been hard to hold without it, it's a horrible compromise.
• ramraj07 6y ago
  Is it really his fault though? Apple from the beginning pushed the boundaries multiples faster than any other company by asking the engineers to create the impossible, and more often than not they delivered. The butterfly keyboard did work, it just had reliability issues (I loved typing on the butterfly as long as it worked). The problem was that they tried to never take the complaints seriously in the open while secretly trying to fix the design with bandaid after bandaid before finally giving up. That’s the problem, owning up to mistakes (remember the audacity with which Jobs spoke about antenna gate asking the people to hold the phone correct) not the excessive push towards thinness. We reap the benefits of the dogged pursuit by the crazies in the company which just means once in a while they also screw up something.
  • PhantomGremlin 6y ago
    We reap the benefits of the dogged pursuit by the crazies in the company which just means once in a while they also screw up something. All companies screw up. Much worse than Apple screwing up is that they continued to obfuscate and prevaricate and deny. Repeatedly. For years. In other words, they doubled down (actually tripled down, 3 editions of butterfly) on stupidity.
• cehrlich 6y ago
  I mostly agree with you, although I'd make one pedantic argument: The 12" MacBook made a great set of compromises (other than keyboard reliability) for the goal it intended to achieve. I had one for several years and loved it. The mistake was taking the compromises from the 12" and applying them to the rest of the lineup, where they made no sense at all.
• bborud 6y ago
  You can probably use the Ive/Jobs combination to describe evolution. Ive was the mutation source, Jobs was the selection filter. What makes evolution work is selection. Without selection you get crap. Mutation is just the noise you need to have something to apply (recombination and) selection to. It is hard to say how much post-Jobs was really Ive. But it was clear that Apple got really lost. And it does suggest that Ive was rather mediocre all along. After all, he sinned against one of the most basic principles when you design something: it has to deserve to exist. In the latter half of the 2010s it got really bad and dare I say: Apple didn't do very well in designing laptops. They really lost touch with reality.
  • odiroot 6y ago
    > You can probably use the Ive/Jobs combination to describe evolution. Ive was the mutation source, Jobs was the selection filter. So they were a kind of a subtractive synthesizer, one could say.
    • bborud 6y ago
      That’s actually a nice ANALOGy.
  • 2muchcoffeeman 6y ago
    I find this an uncharitable view point. All sorts of creative work goes through a filter. Writers have editors, musicians have producers, actors have directors, programmers have other programmers. And when the filter fails (or dies), the result is bad.
    • bborud 6y ago
      What matters is whether or not it describes observable facts.
• jordache 6y ago
  ive is a one trick pony w/ myopic perspective on design - One that is purely focusing on useless aesthetics. Hope apple products going fwd will have superior hardware design that balances usability w/ style.