6 ms·

Just install Linux.

by ttt0 6y ago

Just install Linux.

_joel 6y ago
I had running battles with a previous employer's IT department as we wanted to install linux (being developers in a large non-technical company) as we were deploying to linux targets. Unfortunately the powers that be were very slow/disinterested in helping so WSL was pretty much the only route to have something still serviceable. Shadow IT wouldn't have cut it.
munchbunny 6y ago
I have a full blown Linux install on dual-boot, but for my purposes (gaming and some development on Windows, some development on Linux) it's honestly just easier to have WSL1/WSL2 around so that I can have both OSes around always, rather than having to reboot to switch.
- uep 6y ago
  For those purposes, I run Windows in a VM? In my case, the only reason I even need to run it at all, is that my employer has some software that requires it.
- fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
  Qubes can do the opposite, I think.
  - reificator 6y ago
    What is the gaming experience like on Qubes for modern games? What about older games? Or VR?
    - reificator 6y ago
      This is an earnest question for the record.
      - fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
        Sorry, I don’t actually use Qubes, just know by reputation that they have worked on WSL2-style VMs for Linux. I assume IOMMU passthrough works pretty well, when available. Also, I’ve been pleasantly surprised by how well Steam’s proton works even with applications that aren’t officially supported.
- boogies 6y ago
  Why not use a Windows VM on GNU/Linux to have both OSes around usually, and one even when Windows is BSODing or Blue Screen of Forced Update-ing (yes I know you can procrastinate those for various amounts of time with various hidden settings or hacks, but seems easier to just use GNU, and personally even grow out of AAA gaming)? Edit, responding to now-deleted reply: > a good way to virtualize Windows that maintains decently high compatibility and performance with the games I want to play Isn’t a normal VM with GPU passthrough that? I’m genuinely asking, because I’ve asked my original comment’s question several times before and never received answers except something about wanting to buy a computer with the OS installed from a brick-and-mortar retail store, which didn’t seem to apply to you given you’ve already installed GNU/Linux. > I can lose out on a hobby I enjoy and pretend it's "growing up". Because as we all know games are for kids; adults who play them are manchildren. I said personally because I personally have felt less addicted to games as I personally have grown older. Of course most people are different from me in many ways, but I don’t think everyone is in every one.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - ttt0 6y ago
    > a good way to virtualize Windows that maintains decently high compatibility and performance with the games I want to play I'd legit rather kill myself than use Windows as my primary OS, so I dual-boot, but I'm frankly interested in that too. Not for games though, but for real-time audio. Does anyone have any experience with running a DAW on a Windows VM? Is it worth the effort?
  - beefbroccoli 6y ago
    The simple answer is that typically the software that keeps one tied to Windows is the type that wants/needs to be on metal. Hardware passthrough does exist and I only expect it to improve, but we're still a ways from reaching "just works" level.
  - wayneftw 6y ago
    I just run them on different machines. My life is so much simpler without all those layers. Windows never messes with my Linux and vice versa. Of course it helps that RDP and freeRDP both work very well. Whenever I need Windows I just fired up and I'm there instantly. If I want to play a game I go over to my gaming machine. Personally I never mix games and business.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago
  I dual boot as well but I only switch to Windows to game which isn't too often.
Beached 6y ago
From an enterprise it perspective, most of the time you cannot just install linux. corp computers need to be centrally managed, maintained, and compatible with all the crap the enterprise issues. for the most part that's windows or osx. in the past, my field at least has relied on either using a vm, or an unsupported second computer you need to expense and get exceptions for. WSL is pretty much a godsend as it's native windows supported, few exceptions needed from the enterprise, cheaper to expense, and less friction and better integration with windows than a vm. imo, windows primary with WSL is the new standard to beat as far as working environment. I cannot even imagine going back to osx or using linux as my primary OS anymore.
beefbroccoli 6y ago
I did. But I also have Windows machines, in which I use WSL2. Granted, I don't use GUI applications on them (or see much need to). It's actually quite nice to have a "real" linux instance available on virtually any Windows machine. I believe Microsoft is targeting the "developer who uses a Mac" market share with WSL2 and I expect more and more to jump ship, as the experience is significantly better.
- zests 6y ago
  Apple wins in the hardware department by far. Even before M1. If this targets anyone it targets developers who play video games.
  - beefbroccoli 6y ago
    I think most developers would be happy with a Thinkpad, if it meant they could use Docker without pulling their hair out.
rashil2000 6y ago
How would you feel if you were to ask someone "Hey how do I run Office on Linux (for whatever reason, probably work-enforced)?" and they replied "JuSt iNsTaLl WiNdOws!"
- ttt0 6y ago
  This wasn't the question, but depending on what the issue is, the chances are that I'd give the same advice - "just install Windows". And since you're the author, would you mind to explain what was your reasoning behind why you thought something like this was necessary?
  - rashil2000 6y ago
    It wasn't necessary. I just wanted to experiment; I had some free time over the holidays. The blog is just a PoC. GUI apps on Windows are more than enough; there should be no need (currently, at least) to have GUI apps running in WSL.

Just install Linux.

by ttt0 6y ago

Just install Linux.

I had running battles with a previous employer's IT department as we wanted to install linux (being developers in a large non-technical company) as we were deploying to linux targets. Unfortunately the powers that be were very slow/disinterested in helping so WSL was pretty much the only route to have something still serviceable. Shadow IT wouldn't have cut it.

munchbunny 6y ago

I have a full blown Linux install on dual-boot, but for my purposes (gaming and some development on Windows, some development on Linux) it's honestly just easier to have WSL1/WSL2 around so that I can have both OSes around always, rather than having to reboot to switch.

uep 6y ago
For those purposes, I run Windows in a VM? In my case, the only reason I even need to run it at all, is that my employer has some software that requires it.
fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
Qubes can do the opposite, I think.
- reificator 6y ago
  What is the gaming experience like on Qubes for modern games? What about older games? Or VR?
  - reificator 6y ago
    This is an earnest question for the record.
    - fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
      Sorry, I don’t actually use Qubes, just know by reputation that they have worked on WSL2-style VMs for Linux. I assume IOMMU passthrough works pretty well, when available. Also, I’ve been pleasantly surprised by how well Steam’s proton works even with applications that aren’t officially supported.
boogies 6y ago
Why not use a Windows VM on GNU/Linux to have both OSes around usually, and one even when Windows is BSODing or Blue Screen of Forced Update-ing (yes I know you can procrastinate those for various amounts of time with various hidden settings or hacks, but seems easier to just use GNU, and personally even grow out of AAA gaming)? Edit, responding to now-deleted reply: > a good way to virtualize Windows that maintains decently high compatibility and performance with the games I want to play Isn’t a normal VM with GPU passthrough that? I’m genuinely asking, because I’ve asked my original comment’s question several times before and never received answers except something about wanting to buy a computer with the OS installed from a brick-and-mortar retail store, which didn’t seem to apply to you given you’ve already installed GNU/Linux. > I can lose out on a hobby I enjoy and pretend it's "growing up". Because as we all know games are for kids; adults who play them are manchildren. I said personally because I personally have felt less addicted to games as I personally have grown older. Of course most people are different from me in many ways, but I don’t think everyone is in every one.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- ttt0 6y ago
  > a good way to virtualize Windows that maintains decently high compatibility and performance with the games I want to play I'd legit rather kill myself than use Windows as my primary OS, so I dual-boot, but I'm frankly interested in that too. Not for games though, but for real-time audio. Does anyone have any experience with running a DAW on a Windows VM? Is it worth the effort?
- beefbroccoli 6y ago
  The simple answer is that typically the software that keeps one tied to Windows is the type that wants/needs to be on metal. Hardware passthrough does exist and I only expect it to improve, but we're still a ways from reaching "just works" level.
- wayneftw 6y ago
  I just run them on different machines. My life is so much simpler without all those layers. Windows never messes with my Linux and vice versa. Of course it helps that RDP and freeRDP both work very well. Whenever I need Windows I just fired up and I'm there instantly. If I want to play a game I go over to my gaming machine. Personally I never mix games and business.
2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago
I dual boot as well but I only switch to Windows to game which isn't too often.

Beached 6y ago

From an enterprise it perspective, most of the time you cannot just install linux. corp computers need to be centrally managed, maintained, and compatible with all the crap the enterprise issues. for the most part that's windows or osx. in the past, my field at least has relied on either using a vm, or an unsupported second computer you need to expense and get exceptions for. WSL is pretty much a godsend as it's native windows supported, few exceptions needed from the enterprise, cheaper to expense, and less friction and better integration with windows than a vm. imo, windows primary with WSL is the new standard to beat as far as working environment. I cannot even imagine going back to osx or using linux as my primary OS anymore.

beefbroccoli 6y ago

I did. But I also have Windows machines, in which I use WSL2. Granted, I don't use GUI applications on them (or see much need to). It's actually quite nice to have a "real" linux instance available on virtually any Windows machine. I believe Microsoft is targeting the "developer who uses a Mac" market share with WSL2 and I expect more and more to jump ship, as the experience is significantly better.

zests 6y ago
Apple wins in the hardware department by far. Even before M1. If this targets anyone it targets developers who play video games.
- beefbroccoli 6y ago
  I think most developers would be happy with a Thinkpad, if it meant they could use Docker without pulling their hair out.

rashil2000 6y ago

How would you feel if you were to ask someone "Hey how do I run Office on Linux (for whatever reason, probably work-enforced)?" and they replied "JuSt iNsTaLl WiNdOws!"

ttt0 6y ago
This wasn't the question, but depending on what the issue is, the chances are that I'd give the same advice - "just install Windows". And since you're the author, would you mind to explain what was your reasoning behind why you thought something like this was necessary?
- rashil2000 6y ago
  It wasn't necessary. I just wanted to experiment; I had some free time over the holidays. The blog is just a PoC. GUI apps on Windows are more than enough; there should be no need (currently, at least) to have GUI apps running in WSL.