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I really found this passage of the essay ironic.... he talks so much shit about his partner and other people needing to "keep up" with the rest of society and h

I really found this passage of the essay ironic.... he talks so much shit about his partner and other people needing to "keep up" with the rest of society and how he isn't like that.... but then he actually does feel the need to keep up with HIS community, which is the FI crowd. I hate when people confuse not wanting to belong to and impress a particular community with not wanting to belong to or impress ANY community. He is just like everyone else, just in a different group.

BLKNSLVR 6y ago
I didn't get that read at all. A desire to maintain happiness whilst having no job to dictate time and activities isn't "just in a different group". I think they're somewhat non-conformist by posting about negatives and the fact that life will push you in unpredictable directions - even when you've done the maths. But maybe that's because I tend to agree with the commentary around 'other people needing to "keep up" with the rest of society'.
- cortesoft 6y ago
  I don't see how you can read this passage and not see that his feelings of inadequacy compared to other FI bloggers isn't the same "keeping up" that he criticized in his ex and others: > I looked at other FI bloggers who quit work and retired. They all appeared to be blissful. Stoic. Confident and without reservations. Since I ran into problems myself, I started to feel like I was defective. Like something was wrong with me and that’s why it didn’t work so well. That is the EXACT same emotion people feel when seeing their peers who are posting their wealth on Facebook. It might not be material wealth he is trying to keep up with, but it is still the same emotional desire. He is still keeping up with the Jones's... just a different group of Jones's There is nothing wrong with that, except he expresses such disgust for other people having that need, while pretending his own doesn't exist.
  - BLKNSLVR 6y ago
    I can see your point, but I don't feel it. My mind wants to say those two things aren't comparable; apples and oranges. The only way I can explain it exposes my own bias, so I have to grant that you're right, but at the same time it doesn't change my bias as to which one is more "correct" or "wholesome" or "mentally healthy". The need to have or display material wealth, on any level, as some kind of basis for happiness just isn't the same as the ability to be happy in ones self, naked to the world. One is unhealthy and unsustainable, the other isn't. "Like there was something wrong with me" more sounds like "maybe I do need that external validation more than I thought I did", more as a desire to be self-satisfied, or of a healthy state of mind, like (seemingly) other FI bloggers (the very fact they're bloggers may undermine the entirety of the argument, however). OK, to put it into an analogy: if the Jones' were getting fit and healthy and looking after themselves would undertaking a health kick still be "keeping up with the Jones'" or would that be a good kick in the pants to get healthy yourself? (motivation and tenacity (w|c)ould be the differentiator). If it's intrinsically positive, is that still pandering? If there's no perceived value other than the perceived value, then I'm on board with your argument. It's likely to be a case of the ugliness of reality not often being blogged about, and so OP had an unrealistic expectation - in which case there's definitely an amount of Jonesing, but I'm maintaining there's a distinction between positive/healthy and negative/unhealthy Jonesing (so maybe I'm trying to move your goal posts whilst agreeing with you but still trying to appear to disagree). This many words to justify my position. If it was anyone else I'd call denial.
    - cortesoft 6y ago
      So I think you might be confusing two different things. One is the pursuit of wealth and the other is the need to seek validation and acceptance from your peers. The writer (and you, it seems) believe the pursuit of wealth is unhealthy. This is a cohesive world view, and I feel the writer (and you) are fine for feeling this way. There are some compelling arguments against the constant pursuit of wealth, and nothing is hypocritical in the essay (or your comment) on that point. The second point is where I have issue. Seeking validation and acceptance from your peers is present both in the people pursuing wealth and in the writer’s own life. He simply doesn’t see his own need for acceptance as being equivalent to other people’s, but it is. That is the part that I take issue with, not the anti-materialist stuff. In addition, there is nothing wrong for wanting and seeking acceptance from your peer group. We are social animals, and this is normal and healthy (as long as it doesn’t lead to self destructive behaviors seeking validation!)

BLKNSLVR 6y ago

I didn't get that read at all. A desire to maintain happiness whilst having no job to dictate time and activities isn't "just in a different group". I think they're somewhat non-conformist by posting about negatives and the fact that life will push you in unpredictable directions - even when you've done the maths. But maybe that's because I tend to agree with the commentary around 'other people needing to "keep up" with the rest of society'.

cortesoft 6y ago
I don't see how you can read this passage and not see that his feelings of inadequacy compared to other FI bloggers isn't the same "keeping up" that he criticized in his ex and others: > I looked at other FI bloggers who quit work and retired. They all appeared to be blissful. Stoic. Confident and without reservations. Since I ran into problems myself, I started to feel like I was defective. Like something was wrong with me and that’s why it didn’t work so well. That is the EXACT same emotion people feel when seeing their peers who are posting their wealth on Facebook. It might not be material wealth he is trying to keep up with, but it is still the same emotional desire. He is still keeping up with the Jones's... just a different group of Jones's There is nothing wrong with that, except he expresses such disgust for other people having that need, while pretending his own doesn't exist.
- BLKNSLVR 6y ago
  I can see your point, but I don't feel it. My mind wants to say those two things aren't comparable; apples and oranges. The only way I can explain it exposes my own bias, so I have to grant that you're right, but at the same time it doesn't change my bias as to which one is more "correct" or "wholesome" or "mentally healthy". The need to have or display material wealth, on any level, as some kind of basis for happiness just isn't the same as the ability to be happy in ones self, naked to the world. One is unhealthy and unsustainable, the other isn't. "Like there was something wrong with me" more sounds like "maybe I do need that external validation more than I thought I did", more as a desire to be self-satisfied, or of a healthy state of mind, like (seemingly) other FI bloggers (the very fact they're bloggers may undermine the entirety of the argument, however). OK, to put it into an analogy: if the Jones' were getting fit and healthy and looking after themselves would undertaking a health kick still be "keeping up with the Jones'" or would that be a good kick in the pants to get healthy yourself? (motivation and tenacity (w|c)ould be the differentiator). If it's intrinsically positive, is that still pandering? If there's no perceived value other than the perceived value, then I'm on board with your argument. It's likely to be a case of the ugliness of reality not often being blogged about, and so OP had an unrealistic expectation - in which case there's definitely an amount of Jonesing, but I'm maintaining there's a distinction between positive/healthy and negative/unhealthy Jonesing (so maybe I'm trying to move your goal posts whilst agreeing with you but still trying to appear to disagree). This many words to justify my position. If it was anyone else I'd call denial.
  - cortesoft 6y ago
    So I think you might be confusing two different things. One is the pursuit of wealth and the other is the need to seek validation and acceptance from your peers. The writer (and you, it seems) believe the pursuit of wealth is unhealthy. This is a cohesive world view, and I feel the writer (and you) are fine for feeling this way. There are some compelling arguments against the constant pursuit of wealth, and nothing is hypocritical in the essay (or your comment) on that point. The second point is where I have issue. Seeking validation and acceptance from your peers is present both in the people pursuing wealth and in the writer’s own life. He simply doesn’t see his own need for acceptance as being equivalent to other people’s, but it is. That is the part that I take issue with, not the anti-materialist stuff. In addition, there is nothing wrong for wanting and seeking acceptance from your peer group. We are social animals, and this is normal and healthy (as long as it doesn’t lead to self destructive behaviors seeking validation!)