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I'm not sure I fully understand the rationale behind this lawsuit. I hated butterfly keyboard the moment I tried it, which is why I stopped upgrading/buying Mac

I'm not sure I fully understand the rationale behind this lawsuit. I hated butterfly keyboard the moment I tried it, which is why I stopped upgrading/buying MacBook Pro entirely. People who bought had all the chances to try and decide not to buy, or to even return after trying. They stuck to it. What's the ground for the class action ? Did Apple make any misleading presentation ? Otherwise, this feels like suing simply because you don't like the product (when they had all the chances to not buy or return).

detaro 6y ago
The article states the answers to your questions.
- drivebycomment 6y ago
  I hate butterfly keyboard and I think it's one of the worst mistakes Apple ever made, but I'm afraid I didn't find anything in the article that mentions what "consumer protection law" that Apple violated. As far as I know, Apple followed through with their warranty. There's no safety issues with keyboard failures. Where/when does the company's liability end with their product ?
  - kemayo 6y ago
    You have to follow the link title "filed in 2018" to get the full description of the lawsuit. It says: > Apple is accused of, among other things, violating California's Unfair Competition Law and Consumer Legal Remedies Act, the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, the Song-Beverly Consumer Warranty Act, and breach of express warranty. I certainly don't know enough about the law to comment on whether they're actually in violation of anything there. But as a complete layperson the argument "Apple knowingly sold keyboards that broke unreasonably quickly, and took a weirdly long time to change that" is persuasive under some vague sense that products should be suitable for reasonable use.
    - arcticbull 6y ago
      The warranty of fitness for a particular purpose, I suppose, although that one's implied if I'm not mistaken.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > As far as I know, Apple followed through with their warranty They are specifically accused, among other things, of generally denying warranty service in favor of known-bad self-help recommendations, and also, when accepting units for warranty service, knowingly doing “repairs” that were temporary fixes.
    - drivebycomment 6y ago
      Thanks. That's clearly a valid issue to litigate for. Too bad the article doesn't mention any of that.
zamalek 6y ago
> Did Apple make any misleading presentation ? Apple stuck to the message that the problem was the users, not the switches. For multiple product iterations. They even suggested buying air duster.
trimbo 6y ago
> People who bought had all the chances to try and decide not to buy, or to even return after trying Random missed keystrokes long after the return period are the problem. Mine is 3 years old and I just had the keyboard[1] swapped out by Apple under the extended warranty. It was sometimes missing arrow key strokes for a while, but when it started missing spacebar, that was when I got it replaced. They only extended the warranty to 4 years so I figured now was my window. Apple also claimed several times to have fixed the issue with this keyboard. I believe every year up until 2019 they made these claims. It was never the case. My 2019 MBP from work is in the initial "occasional dust-under-the-key" stage of failure. [1] - Because the MBP is so unrepairable, they have to replace the battery when they swap the keyboard. So for anyone with one of these, get it replaced for an additional free battery refresh.
p1necone 6y ago
The problem isn't that it feels bad - that of course is personal preference and would not be grounds for a class action. The problem is that it breaks quickly, which is not something that you can find out by trying it out for 10 minutes in a shop.
dragonwriter 6y ago
> I'm not sure I fully understand the rationale behind this lawsuit. The lawsuit itself is clear as to the rationale. [0] > What's the ground for the class action ? There are several. > Did Apple make any misleading presentation ? As alleged, yes, both about the product itself and what Apple would do if there was a problem (given that failing to uphold the explicit warranty in good faith is one of the claims.) [0] https://www.girardsharp.com/assets/htmldocuments/2018-10-10%20Macbook%20Consolidated%20Complaint%20Dkt.%2066.pdf https://www.girardsharp.com/assets/htmldocuments/2018-10-10%...

detaro 6y ago

The article states the answers to your questions.

drivebycomment 6y ago
I hate butterfly keyboard and I think it's one of the worst mistakes Apple ever made, but I'm afraid I didn't find anything in the article that mentions what "consumer protection law" that Apple violated. As far as I know, Apple followed through with their warranty. There's no safety issues with keyboard failures. Where/when does the company's liability end with their product ?
- kemayo 6y ago
  You have to follow the link title "filed in 2018" to get the full description of the lawsuit. It says: > Apple is accused of, among other things, violating California's Unfair Competition Law and Consumer Legal Remedies Act, the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, the Song-Beverly Consumer Warranty Act, and breach of express warranty. I certainly don't know enough about the law to comment on whether they're actually in violation of anything there. But as a complete layperson the argument "Apple knowingly sold keyboards that broke unreasonably quickly, and took a weirdly long time to change that" is persuasive under some vague sense that products should be suitable for reasonable use.
  - arcticbull 6y ago
    The warranty of fitness for a particular purpose, I suppose, although that one's implied if I'm not mistaken.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > As far as I know, Apple followed through with their warranty They are specifically accused, among other things, of generally denying warranty service in favor of known-bad self-help recommendations, and also, when accepting units for warranty service, knowingly doing “repairs” that were temporary fixes.
  - drivebycomment 6y ago
    Thanks. That's clearly a valid issue to litigate for. Too bad the article doesn't mention any of that.

zamalek 6y ago

> Did Apple make any misleading presentation ? Apple stuck to the message that the problem was the users, not the switches. For multiple product iterations. They even suggested buying air duster.

trimbo 6y ago

> People who bought had all the chances to try and decide not to buy, or to even return after trying Random missed keystrokes long after the return period are the problem. Mine is 3 years old and I just had the keyboard[1] swapped out by Apple under the extended warranty. It was sometimes missing arrow key strokes for a while, but when it started missing spacebar, that was when I got it replaced. They only extended the warranty to 4 years so I figured now was my window. Apple also claimed several times to have fixed the issue with this keyboard. I believe every year up until 2019 they made these claims. It was never the case. My 2019 MBP from work is in the initial "occasional dust-under-the-key" stage of failure. [1] - Because the MBP is so unrepairable, they have to replace the battery when they swap the keyboard. So for anyone with one of these, get it replaced for an additional free battery refresh.

p1necone 6y ago

The problem isn't that it feels bad - that of course is personal preference and would not be grounds for a class action. The problem is that it breaks quickly, which is not something that you can find out by trying it out for 10 minutes in a shop.

dragonwriter 6y ago

> I'm not sure I fully understand the rationale behind this lawsuit. The lawsuit itself is clear as to the rationale. [0] > What's the ground for the class action ? There are several. > Did Apple make any misleading presentation ? As alleged, yes, both about the product itself and what Apple would do if there was a problem (given that failing to uphold the explicit warranty in good faith is one of the claims.) [0] https://www.girardsharp.com/assets/htmldocuments/2018-10-10%20Macbook%20Consolidated%20Complaint%20Dkt.%2066.pdf https://www.girardsharp.com/assets/htmldocuments/2018-10-10%...