4 ms·

It's the worst typing experience I've had to date https://datacrayon.com/posts/tools/misc/macbook-butterfly-keyboard-problems/ https://datacrayon.com/posts/tool

It's the worst typing experience I've had to date https://datacrayon.com/posts/tools/misc/macbook-butterfly-keyboard-problems/ https://datacrayon.com/posts/tools/misc/macbook-butterfly-ke...

rbanffy 6y ago
I actually like the very tactile nature. I think it's a shame to have to return to the previous model, where key travel is longer, but the tactility is meh.
- post_break 6y ago
  Like it or not I just wanted to buy a Mac that didn’t have a ticking time bomb of a repair. Thank god the M1 macs don’t have the keyboard. It’s the reason I haven’t bought a new Mac since 2013.
  - rbanffy 6y ago
    I completely understand that. Still, it's a shame not even the mechanical design wizards at Apple couldn't make it reliable. I have a couple scissor keyboards (the pre-magic ones) and, alternating between the laptop and the desktop one just makes it clear how much the butterfly feels better.
    - headmelted 6y ago
      Im pretty sure they did make it reliable, but the ship had sailed by then. I haven’t heard of any trouble with the fourth gen (the last one before moving back to scissor-switches) at all. It’s really unfortunate - a lot of people really liked the butterfly keyboard - but the reliability issues in earlier versions combined with the criticisms on key travel meant those voices just didn’t win out.
- birdyrooster 6y ago
  I agree, I don't like key travel. I guess I am in the minority of people, because my RSI symptoms are actually lessened by lowering my key travel and trigger force. How I differ though is that I really would prefer a more quiet key than the Butterfly style. It's hard to type quietly on the toilet or in a meeting.
  - gen220 6y ago
    Just trying to help, since I’ve been there! Your RSI symptoms might be correlated with but not caused by key travel / force. I’ve found that the dominant cause of RSI is wrist pose (position + orientation), which is mostly influenced by keyboard height (relative to your body), and also to a lesser extent by key pose. Using a split, rising-away keyboard at a position where elbows are bent 90ish degrees and the wrists are in a neutral position is a game-changer. Lower key travel/trigger times change the orientation of your wrists, but not the position. So it might make things better, but no laptop keyboard will provide the optimal typing environment.
    - brigandish 6y ago
      Is there a picture showing this? (or these) I find it hard to be sure I'm visualising what you're describing.
      - gen220 6y ago
        I think this article [1] does a pretty good job. (#1 result when I Google for “optimal typing posture”). Only thing I’d disagree with is I prefer to have my horizontally aligned with the midpoint of my monitor, to ease pressure on the neck. Another thing it mentions but doesn’t visualize is the effect of having a split keyboard. Without the split, your shoulders are in a strained position while typing. You can practice this with a “ghost” keyboard and paying attention to your shoulder muscles, it makes a big difference! [1]: http://ergonomictrends.com/proper-ergonomic-typing-posture-at-computer/ http://ergonomictrends.com/proper-ergonomic-typing-posture-a...
    - birdyrooster 6y ago
- pivo 6y ago
  I have a 2019 model with the fixed (hopefully) version of the keyboard that added the debris-protecting membrane. It hasn't failed me yet, knock wood. I really love how fast I can type on it and how light the keypresses need be. I'm less accurate but my increased typing speed more than makes up for the the slight loss in accuracy. Some of my colleagues complain of muscle pain from the short key travel on these models. From sitting next to them in pre-Covid days I can only imagine that's due to how hard they used to pound their poor keyboards. I dreaded moving to the chiclet keyboards and then I dreaded moving to the butterfly, but at least for me they both turned out to be pleasantly surprising upgrades.
QuercusMax 6y ago
I now have RSI after using my 2018 macbook pro. I remember after those came out, everybody's typing was way louder and distracting in meetings - that can't be healthy for your joints. It feels like typing on a block of wood.
mark_story 6y ago
100% agree. The butterfly switch MBP I have is by far the worst keyboard I have ever used. After a few hours of typing on that keyboard my fingers are sore from instant bottom out into what feels like a sheet of metal.
Eric_WVGG 6y ago
I'm one of the rare weirdos who really likes the feel of the butterfly keyboard. I love the snappy, tappy reaction. The new "magic" keyboards feel mushy in comparison. BUT… my 2016 MBP is on its third keyboard, and seems ready for a fourth. AND… for four years I've been wondering if my typing has been getting progressively worse worse; a couple weeks ago I picked up an M1 Air as a kind of stopgap while waiting for the M1 16". LO AND BEHOLD: my typing accuracy got better overnight. That fraction of a millimeter between the keys makes a huge difference. I love the butterfly keyboard. It was a disaster. RIP.
- aranchelk 6y ago
  Another weirdo here I guess. I love the stability and the positive clickiness. I'm pretty picky with my keyboards otherwise preferring tactile mechanical switches. Surprised not see more love for butterflies here. I haven't had those reliability issues, but 90% of the time work with an external keyboard and I clean my equipment more often than most.
  - curryst 6y ago
    I didn't get enough tactile feedback while touch typing. It felt hard to tell whether the "click" feeling I got was from the key clicking or just from my finger hitting the key and bouncing off. Fwiw, I don't like any of the key systems that have a force threshold they just give up after. I had a Razer gaming keyboard that I didn't like for the same reason. It had good travel, but the keys don't move until you hit a certain force and then they totally cave and there's no resistance. They're also not really designed for typing though.
- TheRealSteel 6y ago
  I'm on your side. I love the low travel and the clickiness. I don't like how easily it breaks, and I don't like the Touch Bar, but I actually really like typing on the butterfly keyboard itself (I'm typing this on one), I find I'm very fast and accurate and it feels quick and clean.
- Qub3d 6y ago
  FWIW, I went from a 2014 Macbook Pro to a 2019 16 inch model (first one that went back to the "magic" keyboard) and I find the keys noticeably more snappy; I suppose my old rubber domes may have worn out, but the travel is definitely less, and its sharper.

It's the worst typing experience I've had to date https://datacrayon.com/posts/tools/misc/macbook-butterfly-keyboard-problems/ https://datacrayon.com/posts/tools/misc/macbook-butterfly-ke...

rbanffy 6y ago

I actually like the very tactile nature. I think it's a shame to have to return to the previous model, where key travel is longer, but the tactility is meh.

post_break 6y ago
Like it or not I just wanted to buy a Mac that didn’t have a ticking time bomb of a repair. Thank god the M1 macs don’t have the keyboard. It’s the reason I haven’t bought a new Mac since 2013.
- rbanffy 6y ago
  I completely understand that. Still, it's a shame not even the mechanical design wizards at Apple couldn't make it reliable. I have a couple scissor keyboards (the pre-magic ones) and, alternating between the laptop and the desktop one just makes it clear how much the butterfly feels better.
  - headmelted 6y ago
    Im pretty sure they did make it reliable, but the ship had sailed by then. I haven’t heard of any trouble with the fourth gen (the last one before moving back to scissor-switches) at all. It’s really unfortunate - a lot of people really liked the butterfly keyboard - but the reliability issues in earlier versions combined with the criticisms on key travel meant those voices just didn’t win out.
birdyrooster 6y ago
I agree, I don't like key travel. I guess I am in the minority of people, because my RSI symptoms are actually lessened by lowering my key travel and trigger force. How I differ though is that I really would prefer a more quiet key than the Butterfly style. It's hard to type quietly on the toilet or in a meeting.
- gen220 6y ago
  Just trying to help, since I’ve been there! Your RSI symptoms might be correlated with but not caused by key travel / force. I’ve found that the dominant cause of RSI is wrist pose (position + orientation), which is mostly influenced by keyboard height (relative to your body), and also to a lesser extent by key pose. Using a split, rising-away keyboard at a position where elbows are bent 90ish degrees and the wrists are in a neutral position is a game-changer. Lower key travel/trigger times change the orientation of your wrists, but not the position. So it might make things better, but no laptop keyboard will provide the optimal typing environment.
  - brigandish 6y ago
    Is there a picture showing this? (or these) I find it hard to be sure I'm visualising what you're describing.
    - gen220 6y ago
      I think this article [1] does a pretty good job. (#1 result when I Google for “optimal typing posture”). Only thing I’d disagree with is I prefer to have my horizontally aligned with the midpoint of my monitor, to ease pressure on the neck. Another thing it mentions but doesn’t visualize is the effect of having a split keyboard. Without the split, your shoulders are in a strained position while typing. You can practice this with a “ghost” keyboard and paying attention to your shoulder muscles, it makes a big difference! [1]: http://ergonomictrends.com/proper-ergonomic-typing-posture-at-computer/ http://ergonomictrends.com/proper-ergonomic-typing-posture-a...
  - birdyrooster 6y ago
pivo 6y ago
I have a 2019 model with the fixed (hopefully) version of the keyboard that added the debris-protecting membrane. It hasn't failed me yet, knock wood. I really love how fast I can type on it and how light the keypresses need be. I'm less accurate but my increased typing speed more than makes up for the the slight loss in accuracy. Some of my colleagues complain of muscle pain from the short key travel on these models. From sitting next to them in pre-Covid days I can only imagine that's due to how hard they used to pound their poor keyboards. I dreaded moving to the chiclet keyboards and then I dreaded moving to the butterfly, but at least for me they both turned out to be pleasantly surprising upgrades.

QuercusMax 6y ago

I now have RSI after using my 2018 macbook pro. I remember after those came out, everybody's typing was way louder and distracting in meetings - that can't be healthy for your joints. It feels like typing on a block of wood.

mark_story 6y ago

100% agree. The butterfly switch MBP I have is by far the worst keyboard I have ever used. After a few hours of typing on that keyboard my fingers are sore from instant bottom out into what feels like a sheet of metal.

Eric_WVGG 6y ago

I'm one of the rare weirdos who really likes the feel of the butterfly keyboard. I love the snappy, tappy reaction. The new "magic" keyboards feel mushy in comparison. BUT… my 2016 MBP is on its third keyboard, and seems ready for a fourth. AND… for four years I've been wondering if my typing has been getting progressively worse worse; a couple weeks ago I picked up an M1 Air as a kind of stopgap while waiting for the M1 16". LO AND BEHOLD: my typing accuracy got better overnight. That fraction of a millimeter between the keys makes a huge difference. I love the butterfly keyboard. It was a disaster. RIP.

aranchelk 6y ago
Another weirdo here I guess. I love the stability and the positive clickiness. I'm pretty picky with my keyboards otherwise preferring tactile mechanical switches. Surprised not see more love for butterflies here. I haven't had those reliability issues, but 90% of the time work with an external keyboard and I clean my equipment more often than most.
- curryst 6y ago
  I didn't get enough tactile feedback while touch typing. It felt hard to tell whether the "click" feeling I got was from the key clicking or just from my finger hitting the key and bouncing off. Fwiw, I don't like any of the key systems that have a force threshold they just give up after. I had a Razer gaming keyboard that I didn't like for the same reason. It had good travel, but the keys don't move until you hit a certain force and then they totally cave and there's no resistance. They're also not really designed for typing though.
TheRealSteel 6y ago
I'm on your side. I love the low travel and the clickiness. I don't like how easily it breaks, and I don't like the Touch Bar, but I actually really like typing on the butterfly keyboard itself (I'm typing this on one), I find I'm very fast and accurate and it feels quick and clean.
Qub3d 6y ago
FWIW, I went from a 2014 Macbook Pro to a 2019 16 inch model (first one that went back to the "magic" keyboard) and I find the keys noticeably more snappy; I suppose my old rubber domes may have worn out, but the travel is definitely less, and its sharper.