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Science, like journalism, is supposed to be about facts and about getting to the truth. No source of covid-19 has been found. Similar lab leaks happen frequen

Science, like journalism, is supposed to be about facts and about getting to the truth. No source of covid-19 has been found. Similar lab leaks happen frequently. BUT.. you're not allowed to discuss it with the undertones that you're a bad person. If you say china virus you could be accused of being a racist. But if you say South African or British variant it's okay. The mental acrobats are insane. If you suggest people aren't thinking critically about it you will be accused of flamebaiting or trolling. If you call out people who are trying to silence your comments you'll be accused of "making boring reading". I think it should be discussed, debated and seriously considered. There is a suggestion in here to assume both the animal farm and the lab were the cause and to respond appropriately. With lack of further evidence I think this is the best idea.

albatruss 6y ago
There is no blame or antagonism towards British or South Africans implied by the use of those terms. No British or South African communities have seen a rise in violence against them in the last year. It's not mental acrobatics. It's pragmatism and empathy.
- shard972 6y ago
  https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/south-africa/2021-01-19-dont-call-it-the-sa-variant-scientists-and-researchers-plead/ https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/south-africa/2021-01-19-don...
ckardat123 6y ago
I would think that the reason that people calling COVID the "China virus" are accused of racism is that there is really no reason to use that term for the virus outside of trying to offend others.
- snicksnak 6y ago
  Can we call it the chinese variant then? Because we do that with the new mutations: the brazilian variant, british variant, south african variant
  - spurgu 6y ago
    In that context "the original Chinese variant" certainly makes sense.
  - chc 6y ago
    I don't have a position on what to call it myself, but I don't see any reason why someone would be insistent on finding some way to call it "Chinese" unless they were attempting to cast blame in a way that "Brazilian variant," "British variant," etc. do not. If most authorities are not already calling it the "Chinese variant," I don't see why you'd call it that. If they are, then obviously you can call it that.
  - nemothekid 6y ago
    >Can we call it the chinese variant then? Ok sure. What did you win? Have you now advanced science and solved all unknown problems in virology? Was the progress of mankind so impeded by the inability to call COVID-19 the Chinese variant? Seriously ask yourself why you are so hung up on being able to call it the China virus. Are doctors around the world completely unable to sequence this virus because they can’t say the word “China virus”, or does it just make you feel better to be able to prescribe blame to a group of people? I think we can agree there’s open mystery about the origin of the virus without getting caught up in culture war trite. British people aren’t being murdered because of some loose connection to a virus, the very least you could do is show some tact and try not to insert your bias at every opportunity.
    - thereisnospork 6y ago
      It is important to be able to call it the 'China virus' for all the reasons China doesn't want it to be called that - names have power and squelching one to avoid offending a country is at best a slippery slope.
      - nemothekid 6y ago
        The “power” you are exerting is the one killing innocent American citizens. The CCP doesn’t give a flying fuck that you are calling it China virus. That you would put American lives at risk for some superficial insult at the CCP says you care more about your perceived superiority than actually solving problems pertaining to the virus. Again it is Americans who are dying, not the Chinese.
- docmars 6y ago
  I think that's a pretty loose assumption that _all people_ are using it with ill intent. Anything can be said or used with ill intent, because intent matters and is separate from actual language. That's why we have tone in speaking and writing to help distinguish this. Our nonverbal cues say a lot more than the words themselves. A rise in violence against Spaniards cannot sloppily be attributed to the use of "Spanish Flu" to describe a virus that some believed to either come from Spain, or affected Spain the worst. It's morbidly irresponsible to assume negative intent when people are trying to name and classify a virus based on its best known origins, and attribute "racism" towards a people group of that same origin as being caused by the naming of a virus. This is a fine example of: correlation does not imply causation. A person who cannot separate the two concepts cleanly is the person who needs deep understanding for why they are wrong, especially when there is no credible data to support that assumption. The media outlets reporting hate crimes caused by the naming of a virus are, in effect, assuming that all or most Americans are too stupid to act reasonably and understand these two very different concepts, so they declare the correlation however they see fit and expect their viewers to latch on and make the same poor and irresponsible assumptions blindly. We are so much smarter than this. Pay close attention to the way journalists mold and shape the narrative based on assumptions and opinions to get you to believe their take. Also pay attention to the fact that CNN and others called this virus "the Chinese virus" well before our 45th President used the phrasing. How does a media outlet get to blame behavior they created without first examining themselves?
  - darkerside 6y ago
    > I think that's a pretty loose assumption that _all people_ are using it with ill intent. Some people drop the N-bomb without ill intent either. There's plenty of precedent for agreeing that certain words and phrases just can't be used anymore in good faith.
    - docmars 6y ago
      Are you suggesting that those in the Black community using the N-word isn't in good faith? I don't think generalizations like these are useful or productive because they contradict themselves when you apply any other context to them. It's double-think in its most overt form.
standardUser 6y ago
There were several terms that came into common use very quickly and none of them included the word "China". When a president with a history of racist statements started using it constantly, and Asian Americans started to get harassed and attacked at an increased rate, it became obviously unethical (to most people) to try and replace the existing, widely used terms with one that has a racial and national component. No acrobatics necessary.
- tim333 6y ago
  I've only heard "China virus" being used with xenophobic intent. Back in January 2020 before it has an official name it was referred to as the Wuhan virus.
nemothekid 6y ago
I’m baffled at what branch of science involves being able to call it the “China virus” rather than COVID. When was Science about prescribing blame?
- TheKarateKid 6y ago
  Gee I don't know.. maybe going 100 years back with the Spanish Flu? West Nile virus, Zika virus, Ebola.. all those are okay but saying Wuhan virus is considered racist.
  - jhugo 6y ago
    The Spanish flu didn't originate in Spain.
    - TheKarateKid 6y ago
      My comment, nor the parent comment, ever said origination.
  - astura 6y ago
    None of those follow WHO's best practices for naming new human infectious diseases, published in 2015. https://www.who.int/news/item/08-05-2015-who-issues-best-practices-for-naming-new-human-infectious-diseases https://www.who.int/news/item/08-05-2015-who-issues-best-pra... “In recent years, several new human infectious diseases have emerged. The use of names such as ‘swine flu’ and ‘Middle East Respiratory Syndrome’ has had unintended negative impacts by stigmatizing certain communities or economic sectors,” says Dr Keiji Fukuda, Assistant Director-General for Health Security, WHO. “This may seem like a trivial issue to some, but disease names really do matter to the people who are directly affected. We’ve seen certain disease names provoke a backlash against members of particular religious or ethnic communities, create unjustified barriers to travel, commerce and trade, and trigger needless slaughtering of food animals. This can have serious consequences for peoples’ lives and livelihoods.” Diseases are often given common names by people outside of the scientific community. Once disease names are established in common usage through the Internet and social media, they are difficult to change, even if an inappropriate name is being used. Therefore, it is important that whoever first reports on a newly identified human disease uses an appropriate name that is scientifically sound and socially acceptable. The best practices state that a disease name should consist of generic descriptive terms, based on the symptoms that the disease causes (e.g. respiratory disease, neurologic syndrome, watery diarrhoea) and more specific descriptive terms when robust information is available on how the disease manifests, who it affects, its severity or seasonality (e.g. progressive, juvenile, severe, winter). If the pathogen that causes the disease is known, it should be part of the disease name (e.g. coronavirus, influenza virus, salmonella). Terms that should be avoided in disease names include geographic locations (e.g. Middle East Respiratory Syndrome, Spanish Flu, Rift Valley fever), people’s names (e.g. Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, Chagas disease), species of animal or food (e.g. swine flu, bird flu, monkey pox), cultural, population, industry or occupational references (e.g. legionnaires), and terms that incite undue fear (e.g. unknown, fatal, epidemic). WHO developed the best practices for naming new human infectious diseases in close collaboration with the World Organisation for Animal Health (OIE) and the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations (FAO), and in consultation with experts leading the International Classification of Diseases (ICD).

albatruss 6y ago

There is no blame or antagonism towards British or South Africans implied by the use of those terms. No British or South African communities have seen a rise in violence against them in the last year. It's not mental acrobatics. It's pragmatism and empathy.

shard972 6y ago
https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/south-africa/2021-01-19-dont-call-it-the-sa-variant-scientists-and-researchers-plead/ https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/south-africa/2021-01-19-don...

ckardat123 6y ago

I would think that the reason that people calling COVID the "China virus" are accused of racism is that there is really no reason to use that term for the virus outside of trying to offend others.

snicksnak 6y ago
Can we call it the chinese variant then? Because we do that with the new mutations: the brazilian variant, british variant, south african variant
- spurgu 6y ago
  In that context "the original Chinese variant" certainly makes sense.
- chc 6y ago
  I don't have a position on what to call it myself, but I don't see any reason why someone would be insistent on finding some way to call it "Chinese" unless they were attempting to cast blame in a way that "Brazilian variant," "British variant," etc. do not. If most authorities are not already calling it the "Chinese variant," I don't see why you'd call it that. If they are, then obviously you can call it that.
- nemothekid 6y ago
  >Can we call it the chinese variant then? Ok sure. What did you win? Have you now advanced science and solved all unknown problems in virology? Was the progress of mankind so impeded by the inability to call COVID-19 the Chinese variant? Seriously ask yourself why you are so hung up on being able to call it the China virus. Are doctors around the world completely unable to sequence this virus because they can’t say the word “China virus”, or does it just make you feel better to be able to prescribe blame to a group of people? I think we can agree there’s open mystery about the origin of the virus without getting caught up in culture war trite. British people aren’t being murdered because of some loose connection to a virus, the very least you could do is show some tact and try not to insert your bias at every opportunity.
  - thereisnospork 6y ago
    It is important to be able to call it the 'China virus' for all the reasons China doesn't want it to be called that - names have power and squelching one to avoid offending a country is at best a slippery slope.
    - nemothekid 6y ago
      The “power” you are exerting is the one killing innocent American citizens. The CCP doesn’t give a flying fuck that you are calling it China virus. That you would put American lives at risk for some superficial insult at the CCP says you care more about your perceived superiority than actually solving problems pertaining to the virus. Again it is Americans who are dying, not the Chinese.
docmars 6y ago
I think that's a pretty loose assumption that _all people_ are using it with ill intent. Anything can be said or used with ill intent, because intent matters and is separate from actual language. That's why we have tone in speaking and writing to help distinguish this. Our nonverbal cues say a lot more than the words themselves. A rise in violence against Spaniards cannot sloppily be attributed to the use of "Spanish Flu" to describe a virus that some believed to either come from Spain, or affected Spain the worst. It's morbidly irresponsible to assume negative intent when people are trying to name and classify a virus based on its best known origins, and attribute "racism" towards a people group of that same origin as being caused by the naming of a virus. This is a fine example of: correlation does not imply causation. A person who cannot separate the two concepts cleanly is the person who needs deep understanding for why they are wrong, especially when there is no credible data to support that assumption. The media outlets reporting hate crimes caused by the naming of a virus are, in effect, assuming that all or most Americans are too stupid to act reasonably and understand these two very different concepts, so they declare the correlation however they see fit and expect their viewers to latch on and make the same poor and irresponsible assumptions blindly. We are so much smarter than this. Pay close attention to the way journalists mold and shape the narrative based on assumptions and opinions to get you to believe their take. Also pay attention to the fact that CNN and others called this virus "the Chinese virus" well before our 45th President used the phrasing. How does a media outlet get to blame behavior they created without first examining themselves?
- darkerside 6y ago
  > I think that's a pretty loose assumption that _all people_ are using it with ill intent. Some people drop the N-bomb without ill intent either. There's plenty of precedent for agreeing that certain words and phrases just can't be used anymore in good faith.
  - docmars 6y ago
    Are you suggesting that those in the Black community using the N-word isn't in good faith? I don't think generalizations like these are useful or productive because they contradict themselves when you apply any other context to them. It's double-think in its most overt form.

standardUser 6y ago

There were several terms that came into common use very quickly and none of them included the word "China". When a president with a history of racist statements started using it constantly, and Asian Americans started to get harassed and attacked at an increased rate, it became obviously unethical (to most people) to try and replace the existing, widely used terms with one that has a racial and national component. No acrobatics necessary.

tim333 6y ago
I've only heard "China virus" being used with xenophobic intent. Back in January 2020 before it has an official name it was referred to as the Wuhan virus.

nemothekid 6y ago

I’m baffled at what branch of science involves being able to call it the “China virus” rather than COVID. When was Science about prescribing blame?

TheKarateKid 6y ago
Gee I don't know.. maybe going 100 years back with the Spanish Flu? West Nile virus, Zika virus, Ebola.. all those are okay but saying Wuhan virus is considered racist.
- jhugo 6y ago
  The Spanish flu didn't originate in Spain.
  - TheKarateKid 6y ago
    My comment, nor the parent comment, ever said origination.
- astura 6y ago
  None of those follow WHO's best practices for naming new human infectious diseases, published in 2015. https://www.who.int/news/item/08-05-2015-who-issues-best-practices-for-naming-new-human-infectious-diseases https://www.who.int/news/item/08-05-2015-who-issues-best-pra... “In recent years, several new human infectious diseases have emerged. The use of names such as ‘swine flu’ and ‘Middle East Respiratory Syndrome’ has had unintended negative impacts by stigmatizing certain communities or economic sectors,” says Dr Keiji Fukuda, Assistant Director-General for Health Security, WHO. “This may seem like a trivial issue to some, but disease names really do matter to the people who are directly affected. We’ve seen certain disease names provoke a backlash against members of particular religious or ethnic communities, create unjustified barriers to travel, commerce and trade, and trigger needless slaughtering of food animals. This can have serious consequences for peoples’ lives and livelihoods.” Diseases are often given common names by people outside of the scientific community. Once disease names are established in common usage through the Internet and social media, they are difficult to change, even if an inappropriate name is being used. Therefore, it is important that whoever first reports on a newly identified human disease uses an appropriate name that is scientifically sound and socially acceptable. The best practices state that a disease name should consist of generic descriptive terms, based on the symptoms that the disease causes (e.g. respiratory disease, neurologic syndrome, watery diarrhoea) and more specific descriptive terms when robust information is available on how the disease manifests, who it affects, its severity or seasonality (e.g. progressive, juvenile, severe, winter). If the pathogen that causes the disease is known, it should be part of the disease name (e.g. coronavirus, influenza virus, salmonella). Terms that should be avoided in disease names include geographic locations (e.g. Middle East Respiratory Syndrome, Spanish Flu, Rift Valley fever), people’s names (e.g. Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, Chagas disease), species of animal or food (e.g. swine flu, bird flu, monkey pox), cultural, population, industry or occupational references (e.g. legionnaires), and terms that incite undue fear (e.g. unknown, fatal, epidemic). WHO developed the best practices for naming new human infectious diseases in close collaboration with the World Organisation for Animal Health (OIE) and the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations (FAO), and in consultation with experts leading the International Classification of Diseases (ICD).