5 ms·

If I were to start a company tomorrow, what should I use instead of Docker? Heroku and dev laptops' filesystems?

by rattray 6y ago

yepthatsreality 6y ago
FreeBSD
- rattray 6y ago
  With VM's for local development? What to use for ensuring the right package versions are installed etc? Terraform?
  - bojo 6y ago
    I believe they were alluding to jails as the alternative here.
    - rattray 6y ago
      Docker solves a lot of problems. I don't want to use it, but I want an easy, cohesive to all those problems! Like, each type of application I have to run in my fleet needs the right environment, with proper settings, packages, etc. And when a developer at the company needs to work on that service locally, they need a prod-like env spun up quickly and simply that they can easily work in. There's many ways to do this, like "one prod box and ssh" but they all have tradeoffs...
      - bojo 6y ago
        My team uses https://www.chef.io/products/chef-habitat/ https://www.chef.io/products/chef-habitat/ to solve what you explained there. Worth taking the time to go through if you want repeatable builds, runtimes, and environments (be they bare metal, VM, or even docker).
- purerandomness 6y ago
  I'd honestly love to. Is there a file format like "docker-compose.yml", where I can describe a handful of Jails that can talk to each other in their own virtual network, and that sets up a handful of services exactly as I describe? Ideally, a Windows user, a Linux user and a Mac OS user check out this file, run a command ("voodoo up") in the directory of that file, and have a VM with the FreeBSD jails setup running exactly as described in the file. I'd pay money for that.
  - rattray 6y ago
    This does sound kind of awesome
  - yepthatsreality 6y ago
    I agree a compositional/coordination cli tool is needed. However here are a few options: - FreeBSD style jails already offer docker config, but here is an article showing a few basic things going on, notably the Network Access section has a FIXME by it: https://bsdwatch.net/articles/jails-as-virtual-servers https://bsdwatch.net/articles/jails-as-virtual-servers - For network isolation it looks like this package could help: https://klarasystems.com/articles/virtualize-your-network-on-freebsd-with-vnet/ https://klarasystems.com/articles/virtualize-your-network-on... - For reproducibility you can use the FreeBSD package builder: https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/ports/#ports-poudriere https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/ports/#ports-poud... - FreeBSD has a Linux compatibility layer. FreeBSD running Docker: https://www.gamsjager.nl/2019/01/11/How-to-run-Docker-on-FreeBSD-12/ https://www.gamsjager.nl/2019/01/11/How-to-run-Docker-on-Fre... - This thread is interesting: https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/docker-is-dead.69955/page-1 https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/docker-is-dead.69955/page... I am going to explore this more in the coming weeks as I play around with FreeBSD.
whitepoplar 6y ago
LXD
scaryclam 6y ago
If you still wanted to use containers, podman is a great drop-in replacement for docker. Heroku's always nice and simple for getting stuff out there. Vagrant + a provisioner of your choice is still good alternative and works solidly for local development if you want to keep developing away from the local filesystem. There are quite a few options that don't involve docker at all, it just takes a little research to remind yourself that there's a world outside of the one presented by docker :/ Edit: s/pacman/podman/
Nextgrid 6y ago
Unless you're planning on building a microservices-based house of cards, you may not need Docker or similar. I run Django apps just fine with a combination of Python (via Pyenv), Postgres and Redis all running locally on a Mac.

If I were to start a company tomorrow, what should I use instead of Docker? Heroku and dev laptops' filesystems?

yepthatsreality 6y ago

FreeBSD

rattray 6y ago
With VM's for local development? What to use for ensuring the right package versions are installed etc? Terraform?
- bojo 6y ago
  I believe they were alluding to jails as the alternative here.
  - rattray 6y ago
    Docker solves a lot of problems. I don't want to use it, but I want an easy, cohesive to all those problems! Like, each type of application I have to run in my fleet needs the right environment, with proper settings, packages, etc. And when a developer at the company needs to work on that service locally, they need a prod-like env spun up quickly and simply that they can easily work in. There's many ways to do this, like "one prod box and ssh" but they all have tradeoffs...
    - bojo 6y ago
      My team uses https://www.chef.io/products/chef-habitat/ https://www.chef.io/products/chef-habitat/ to solve what you explained there. Worth taking the time to go through if you want repeatable builds, runtimes, and environments (be they bare metal, VM, or even docker).
purerandomness 6y ago
I'd honestly love to. Is there a file format like "docker-compose.yml", where I can describe a handful of Jails that can talk to each other in their own virtual network, and that sets up a handful of services exactly as I describe? Ideally, a Windows user, a Linux user and a Mac OS user check out this file, run a command ("voodoo up") in the directory of that file, and have a VM with the FreeBSD jails setup running exactly as described in the file. I'd pay money for that.
- rattray 6y ago
  This does sound kind of awesome
- yepthatsreality 6y ago
  I agree a compositional/coordination cli tool is needed. However here are a few options: - FreeBSD style jails already offer docker config, but here is an article showing a few basic things going on, notably the Network Access section has a FIXME by it: https://bsdwatch.net/articles/jails-as-virtual-servers https://bsdwatch.net/articles/jails-as-virtual-servers - For network isolation it looks like this package could help: https://klarasystems.com/articles/virtualize-your-network-on-freebsd-with-vnet/ https://klarasystems.com/articles/virtualize-your-network-on... - For reproducibility you can use the FreeBSD package builder: https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/ports/#ports-poudriere https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/ports/#ports-poud... - FreeBSD has a Linux compatibility layer. FreeBSD running Docker: https://www.gamsjager.nl/2019/01/11/How-to-run-Docker-on-FreeBSD-12/ https://www.gamsjager.nl/2019/01/11/How-to-run-Docker-on-Fre... - This thread is interesting: https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/docker-is-dead.69955/page-1 https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/docker-is-dead.69955/page... I am going to explore this more in the coming weeks as I play around with FreeBSD.

whitepoplar 6y ago

LXD

scaryclam 6y ago

If you still wanted to use containers, podman is a great drop-in replacement for docker. Heroku's always nice and simple for getting stuff out there. Vagrant + a provisioner of your choice is still good alternative and works solidly for local development if you want to keep developing away from the local filesystem. There are quite a few options that don't involve docker at all, it just takes a little research to remind yourself that there's a world outside of the one presented by docker :/ Edit: s/pacman/podman/

Nextgrid 6y ago

Unless you're planning on building a microservices-based house of cards, you may not need Docker or similar. I run Django apps just fine with a combination of Python (via Pyenv), Postgres and Redis all running locally on a Mac.