5 ms·

If that was a condition of the contract between two parties and the two parties agreed, then what's the problem?

by krona 6y ago

smnrchrds 6y ago
First of all, I don't know if this is purely contractual or not. Perhaps it is, perhaps it's not. But I remember earlier in the vaccination campaign the news talked about how the companies will be free to export after they have fulfilled their 100-million-dose obligation to the US, but later that changed to 300-million doses. Perhaps this was part of the original contact, perhaps it was forced on them later on. Regardless: The problem with this approach is that if this becomes the norm, which so far it seems it will, the next pandemic, the rest of the world will be mega super screwed. Right now, the saving grace of us folks in Canada is that the EU, unlike US and UK, did not prohibit vaccine exports. If they had put the same barriers, we Canadians (as well as most other nations on earth) would have had to wait for the great powers (US/UK/EU) to finish vaccinating their 16-year olds before we could start vaccinating our 90-year olds. So many would have died who would have survived if the vaccines were shared between countries based on population or elderly demographics. It would have been a net gain for US/UK/EU, a net loss for Canada/etc and a net loss for the world as a whole. That's because when you prioritize not-at-risk population from country A over at-risk population from country B, for every A citizen you save, you cause 7900 citizens from country B to die [0]. Also, let's not pretend any country could have signed such a contract with the vaccine manufacturers. If Canada tried to sign a contract with a US manufacturer that said they would give Canada their 96-million-dose contract before selling a single dose to the US, I bet the US government would have ripped the contact to shreds and imposed their own rules on it. Only the countries in which the vaccine producers are located can sign such contracts. So in practice, there is little difference between contract and rule-making in terms of who can do it and what the outcomes are. [0] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/investigations-discovery/hospitalization-death-by-age.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/investi...
- ericmay 6y ago
  Yea... idk how I feel about this. It's definitely the responsibility of a country to protect its citizens first and foremost above all others. On the other hand, maybe once the majority of what would be considered at-risk is vaccinated then a country could export vaccines, but that's really just the prerogative of the country. As a citizen of the U.S. I would be livid if we were exporting vaccines to other countries before we were mostly vaccinated here in my country. It would also severely undermine trust in the U.S. government and give fuel to those who seek to isolate the country from the rest of the world. What better example of "put others ahead of your own countrymen" could you make up? Anyway - the US is exporting vaccines to Mexico and Canada [1]. You should (as a Canadian) start to see lots of vaccine shipments come in from the U.S. as the supply chain juggernaut awakens. I'm not sure what help Canada will actually get from the EU. So far I've seen little in the way of actual numbers. I see the U.S. and U.K. looking very strong after initially not so great reactions to the virus. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/us-to-send-combined-4-million-doses-of-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-to-mexico-canada-in-first-export-of-shots/2021/03/18/1229d450-8807-11eb-be4a-24b89f616f2c_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/us-to-send-combined-...
  - realityking 6y ago
    The EU has already exported 3.9 million doses to Canada. 3.1 million to Mexico and 1 million to the US (source: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_21_1121 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_21_...) Meanwhile the US is now exporting (as a loan!) 2.5 million doses to Mexico and 1.5 million to Canada (source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56451810 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56451810) acting like it‘s a grand humanitarian gesture when the vaccine isn‘t even approved for use in the US. A further 3 million doses are being kept in storage. I understand - but disagree with - you stance that a country should put its own citizens first. In the end, it‘s India, China, Russia and the EU who give the vast majority of countries any chance of vaccinating their most at-risk citizens. I suspect this won‘t be forgotten.
    - smnrchrds 6y ago
      I am happy that the EU allows vaccine exports but I expect this pandemic to be the last one they do. Voters in US and UK are happy and praising their government. Voters in EU are not so happy. They are going to elect a government which would put EU citizens first. Non-US/UK/EU citizens would of course be in favour of a robust export and sharing program, but they don't get a say, so vaccine nationalism will win.
mahkeiro 6y ago
So why are doses of AZ vaccine produced in the US not exported despite the fact that AZ vaccine is not approved in the US?
- tick_tock_tick 6y ago
  They are https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/17/politics/us-astrazeneca-mexico-canada/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/17/politics/us-astrazeneca-mexic...
the_why_of_y 6y ago
This is a pretty weird kind of contract? Executive Order 13962—Ensuring Access to United States Government COVID-19 Vaccines December 08, 2020 By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, it is hereby ordered as follows: https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/12/11/2020-27455/ensuring-access-to-united-states-government-covid-19-vaccines https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/12/11/2020-27...
stdgy 6y ago
It was an Executive Order that compelled this, not contracts.

If that was a condition of the contract between two parties and the two parties agreed, then what's the problem?

by krona 6y ago

If that was a condition of the contract between two parties and the two parties agreed, then what's the problem?

First of all, I don't know if this is purely contractual or not. Perhaps it is, perhaps it's not. But I remember earlier in the vaccination campaign the news talked about how the companies will be free to export after they have fulfilled their 100-million-dose obligation to the US, but later that changed to 300-million doses. Perhaps this was part of the original contact, perhaps it was forced on them later on. Regardless: The problem with this approach is that if this becomes the norm, which so far it seems it will, the next pandemic, the rest of the world will be mega super screwed. Right now, the saving grace of us folks in Canada is that the EU, unlike US and UK, did not prohibit vaccine exports. If they had put the same barriers, we Canadians (as well as most other nations on earth) would have had to wait for the great powers (US/UK/EU) to finish vaccinating their 16-year olds before we could start vaccinating our 90-year olds. So many would have died who would have survived if the vaccines were shared between countries based on population or elderly demographics. It would have been a net gain for US/UK/EU, a net loss for Canada/etc and a net loss for the world as a whole. That's because when you prioritize not-at-risk population from country A over at-risk population from country B, for every A citizen you save, you cause 7900 citizens from country B to die [0]. Also, let's not pretend any country could have signed such a contract with the vaccine manufacturers. If Canada tried to sign a contract with a US manufacturer that said they would give Canada their 96-million-dose contract before selling a single dose to the US, I bet the US government would have ripped the contact to shreds and imposed their own rules on it. Only the countries in which the vaccine producers are located can sign such contracts. So in practice, there is little difference between contract and rule-making in terms of who can do it and what the outcomes are. [0] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/investigations-discovery/hospitalization-death-by-age.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/investi...

ericmay 6y ago
Yea... idk how I feel about this. It's definitely the responsibility of a country to protect its citizens first and foremost above all others. On the other hand, maybe once the majority of what would be considered at-risk is vaccinated then a country could export vaccines, but that's really just the prerogative of the country. As a citizen of the U.S. I would be livid if we were exporting vaccines to other countries before we were mostly vaccinated here in my country. It would also severely undermine trust in the U.S. government and give fuel to those who seek to isolate the country from the rest of the world. What better example of "put others ahead of your own countrymen" could you make up? Anyway - the US is exporting vaccines to Mexico and Canada [1]. You should (as a Canadian) start to see lots of vaccine shipments come in from the U.S. as the supply chain juggernaut awakens. I'm not sure what help Canada will actually get from the EU. So far I've seen little in the way of actual numbers. I see the U.S. and U.K. looking very strong after initially not so great reactions to the virus. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/us-to-send-combined-4-million-doses-of-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-to-mexico-canada-in-first-export-of-shots/2021/03/18/1229d450-8807-11eb-be4a-24b89f616f2c_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/us-to-send-combined-...
- realityking 6y ago
  The EU has already exported 3.9 million doses to Canada. 3.1 million to Mexico and 1 million to the US (source: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_21_1121 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_21_...) Meanwhile the US is now exporting (as a loan!) 2.5 million doses to Mexico and 1.5 million to Canada (source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56451810 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56451810) acting like it‘s a grand humanitarian gesture when the vaccine isn‘t even approved for use in the US. A further 3 million doses are being kept in storage. I understand - but disagree with - you stance that a country should put its own citizens first. In the end, it‘s India, China, Russia and the EU who give the vast majority of countries any chance of vaccinating their most at-risk citizens. I suspect this won‘t be forgotten.
  - smnrchrds 6y ago
    I am happy that the EU allows vaccine exports but I expect this pandemic to be the last one they do. Voters in US and UK are happy and praising their government. Voters in EU are not so happy. They are going to elect a government which would put EU citizens first. Non-US/UK/EU citizens would of course be in favour of a robust export and sharing program, but they don't get a say, so vaccine nationalism will win.

mahkeiro 6y ago

So why are doses of AZ vaccine produced in the US not exported despite the fact that AZ vaccine is not approved in the US?

tick_tock_tick 6y ago
They are https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/17/politics/us-astrazeneca-mexico-canada/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/17/politics/us-astrazeneca-mexic...

the_why_of_y 6y ago

This is a pretty weird kind of contract? Executive Order 13962—Ensuring Access to United States Government COVID-19 Vaccines December 08, 2020 By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, it is hereby ordered as follows: https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/12/11/2020-27455/ensuring-access-to-united-states-government-covid-19-vaccines https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/12/11/2020-27...

stdgy 6y ago

It was an Executive Order that compelled this, not contracts.