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The EU didn’t make them, companies with facilities in the EU did. They were exported because the EU managed to delay its procurement process and other countries

The EU didn’t make them, companies with facilities in the EU did. They were exported because the EU managed to delay its procurement process and other countries made their orders earlier.

hogFeast 6y ago
...and because politicians in the EU told citizens it might be dangerous. Fine, believe all the conspiracy theories about the UK stealing vaccines...the EU has literally millions of doses sitting around going unused because citizens won't take it (it is almost verging on mania: in Germany I have heard that 50% of health workers at some hospitals who had the vaccination are calling in sick after getting the vaccine). I am not sure why there is even a discussion on these points: the EU was late, and once they were late they did almost everything wrong (unsurprisingly, countries in Europe have a terrible record on vaccines)...that is it.
- realityking 6y ago
  > the EU has literally millions of doses sitting around going unused because citizens won't take it This is utterly false. The vaccine is being used as quickly as it comes in. As of yesterday, more than 75% of all doses delivered to Germany have been administered. (Source: https://impfdashboard.de/ https://impfdashboard.de/) this includes the slow-down from temporarily halting the use of AstraZeneca.
  - hogFeast 6y ago
    Just 75%...wow...so low. The UK is doing close to 1m/day. Germany has what, ~1.4m that aren't being used. Amazing that people accept it.
    - realityking 6y ago
      Unfortunately I couldn‘t find a source for how many doses have been delivered to the UK so it‘s hard to draw a comparison. While the UK is vaccination their population at 3.5x the rate of Germany, the majority of that is due to the lack of supplies. If Germany was vaccinating at a rate of 750k/day, ever dose would be applied in 5 days. Considering big deliveries only happen ~1/week this is neither feasible nor desirable.
    - morsch 6y ago
      They are keeping some as a reserve to deliver the second dose according to the recommended regimen since they cannot rely on the manufacturer sticking to the negotiated shipment rates.
      - hef19898 6y ago
        Germany doesn't have an idea of how much will be delivered, so that is a lame excuse. Germany insists on administering the second shot after three weeks, and also inists on keeping the doses for a lot of these shots in stock until then. That costs time.
        morsch 6y ago
        Germany doesn't have an idea of how much will be delivered, so that is a lame excuse. Seems to me like being able to rely on the delivery schedule would be a prerequisite for not holding back doses. I thought this was stupid at first, but that was giving AZ the benefit of the doubt, which they have now repeatedly shown is unwise. You can't have just-in-time delivery with a partner as unreliable as AZ. Maybe this will change in a few months, or maybe at that point they'll decide to sell to someone else instead, who knows. Germany insists on administering the second shot after three weeks Did you mean months? Because I know first hand that at least one region administers the second shot three months after the first one, as in: I handled the appointment, and I wasn't given a choice in the length of time between shots. So three weeks is just false. As far as I know that's the recommendation everywhere in Germany.
        hef19898 6y ago
        Welcome to German federalism, everbody is doing what he wants. Were I live, it is three weeks. Regarding delivery schedules, one core function of supply chain management is following up with suppliers on these. And coordinate that with everyone else, e.g. vaccination centers. Blindly relying on whatever the supplier says, in AZs case months ago, doesn't work.
        6y ago
libertine 6y ago
No country is making vaccines, yet are allowing for their production and exporting. Well, some countries at least, in this case the EU, China, India and Russia so far. The only countries that haven't allowed exports are USA and UK. The EU could take both the US or the UK route to prevent these exports: - The EU could rightfully, and has the power to, prevent exports that are essential in a period of crises - which clearly applies to the current situation in Europe. This is the USA route, and it's legitimate. - The EU can control AZ exports to guarantee they are fulfilling their contractual obligations, which AZ has been literally joking in the face of the EU. This is the UK route, and it's legitimate. What the media is currently reporting is the second one, the EU is forcing the manufacturer to comply with their contract. If this overlaps with the UK contract, well then that's something I believe the UK must deal with the manufacturer like the EU has been doing for the past 3 months. I just don't get the double standards, the UK enforcing a contract is good... the EU doing the same is... bad?
- BruiseLee 6y ago
  > I just don't get the double standards, the UK enforcing a contract is good... the EU doing the same is... bad? Well, it looks like British tabloids are influencing this point of view in English speaking countries.
  - libertine 6y ago
    This is one thing that I've never noticed until the whole vaccine endeavor started, the amount of propaganda British tabloids pump it's mind boggling and quite honestly scary. They tailor narratives and pump the crap out of it, even if it contains wrong information or if it's things completely irrelevant of what's being discussed but that supports the narrative.
- zajio1am 6y ago
  > The EU can control AZ exports to guarantee they are fulfilling their contractual obligations, which AZ has been literally joking in the face of the EU Using such executive powers for handling contract dispute is authoritarian move. These powers should be used for impartial regulation of market, not for contract dispute where EC is one side. In liberal democracies, contract disputes even with government are handled by courts.
krzyk 6y ago
> The EU didn’t make them, companies with facilities in the EU did. If you want to play this game, then companies didn't but EU citizens that work at those factories did create them.

The EU didn’t make them, companies with facilities in the EU did. They were exported because the EU managed to delay its procurement process and other countries made their orders earlier.

hogFeast 6y ago

...and because politicians in the EU told citizens it might be dangerous. Fine, believe all the conspiracy theories about the UK stealing vaccines...the EU has literally millions of doses sitting around going unused because citizens won't take it (it is almost verging on mania: in Germany I have heard that 50% of health workers at some hospitals who had the vaccination are calling in sick after getting the vaccine). I am not sure why there is even a discussion on these points: the EU was late, and once they were late they did almost everything wrong (unsurprisingly, countries in Europe have a terrible record on vaccines)...that is it.

realityking 6y ago
> the EU has literally millions of doses sitting around going unused because citizens won't take it This is utterly false. The vaccine is being used as quickly as it comes in. As of yesterday, more than 75% of all doses delivered to Germany have been administered. (Source: https://impfdashboard.de/ https://impfdashboard.de/) this includes the slow-down from temporarily halting the use of AstraZeneca.
- hogFeast 6y ago
  Just 75%...wow...so low. The UK is doing close to 1m/day. Germany has what, ~1.4m that aren't being used. Amazing that people accept it.
  - realityking 6y ago
    Unfortunately I couldn‘t find a source for how many doses have been delivered to the UK so it‘s hard to draw a comparison. While the UK is vaccination their population at 3.5x the rate of Germany, the majority of that is due to the lack of supplies. If Germany was vaccinating at a rate of 750k/day, ever dose would be applied in 5 days. Considering big deliveries only happen ~1/week this is neither feasible nor desirable.
  - morsch 6y ago
    They are keeping some as a reserve to deliver the second dose according to the recommended regimen since they cannot rely on the manufacturer sticking to the negotiated shipment rates.
    - hef19898 6y ago
      Germany doesn't have an idea of how much will be delivered, so that is a lame excuse. Germany insists on administering the second shot after three weeks, and also inists on keeping the doses for a lot of these shots in stock until then. That costs time.
      - morsch 6y ago
        Germany doesn't have an idea of how much will be delivered, so that is a lame excuse. Seems to me like being able to rely on the delivery schedule would be a prerequisite for not holding back doses. I thought this was stupid at first, but that was giving AZ the benefit of the doubt, which they have now repeatedly shown is unwise. You can't have just-in-time delivery with a partner as unreliable as AZ. Maybe this will change in a few months, or maybe at that point they'll decide to sell to someone else instead, who knows. Germany insists on administering the second shot after three weeks Did you mean months? Because I know first hand that at least one region administers the second shot three months after the first one, as in: I handled the appointment, and I wasn't given a choice in the length of time between shots. So three weeks is just false. As far as I know that's the recommendation everywhere in Germany.
        hef19898 6y ago
        Welcome to German federalism, everbody is doing what he wants. Were I live, it is three weeks. Regarding delivery schedules, one core function of supply chain management is following up with suppliers on these. And coordinate that with everyone else, e.g. vaccination centers. Blindly relying on whatever the supplier says, in AZs case months ago, doesn't work.
        6y ago

libertine 6y ago

No country is making vaccines, yet are allowing for their production and exporting. Well, some countries at least, in this case the EU, China, India and Russia so far. The only countries that haven't allowed exports are USA and UK. The EU could take both the US or the UK route to prevent these exports: - The EU could rightfully, and has the power to, prevent exports that are essential in a period of crises - which clearly applies to the current situation in Europe. This is the USA route, and it's legitimate. - The EU can control AZ exports to guarantee they are fulfilling their contractual obligations, which AZ has been literally joking in the face of the EU. This is the UK route, and it's legitimate. What the media is currently reporting is the second one, the EU is forcing the manufacturer to comply with their contract. If this overlaps with the UK contract, well then that's something I believe the UK must deal with the manufacturer like the EU has been doing for the past 3 months. I just don't get the double standards, the UK enforcing a contract is good... the EU doing the same is... bad?

BruiseLee 6y ago
> I just don't get the double standards, the UK enforcing a contract is good... the EU doing the same is... bad? Well, it looks like British tabloids are influencing this point of view in English speaking countries.
- libertine 6y ago
  This is one thing that I've never noticed until the whole vaccine endeavor started, the amount of propaganda British tabloids pump it's mind boggling and quite honestly scary. They tailor narratives and pump the crap out of it, even if it contains wrong information or if it's things completely irrelevant of what's being discussed but that supports the narrative.
zajio1am 6y ago
> The EU can control AZ exports to guarantee they are fulfilling their contractual obligations, which AZ has been literally joking in the face of the EU Using such executive powers for handling contract dispute is authoritarian move. These powers should be used for impartial regulation of market, not for contract dispute where EC is one side. In liberal democracies, contract disputes even with government are handled by courts.

krzyk 6y ago

> The EU didn’t make them, companies with facilities in the EU did. If you want to play this game, then companies didn't but EU citizens that work at those factories did create them.