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1. The virus did not originate in our own house. Seems like a deflection to say we should focus on ourselves when we're starting at evidence that Chinese misste

1. The virus did not originate in our own house. Seems like a deflection to say we should focus on ourselves when we're starting at evidence that Chinese missteps could have caused a global pandemic that has killed millions and upended life for billions. 2. Doesn't mean we shouldn't try. We should also acknowledge that an investigation much earlier on could have happened if it were not for Chinese government obstructionism and cover-ups. 3. Why do you not care about where it came from? The allegation at hand is that China's irresponsible scientific experimentation "created" this virus (intentional oversimplification) and allowed it to leak. If the truth never comes out, and China is never held accountable, the same thing could happen again. Why is your sole interest the global response to the pandemic as opposed to the missteps that caused the pandemic in the first place?

carols10cents 6y ago
1. Even if this particular virus didn't originate in our own house, if we want to demand openness and security from other countries, we in the US should start by being open with records of accidents and enhanced measures to prevent future accidents.
- pageandrew 6y ago
  Safety issues at US labs are not kept secret, as the author of the linked article has literally reported on them before, and they have also never caused a deadly global pandemic.
  - gsk22 6y ago
    > Safety issues at US labs are not kept secret No, they are "inadvertently" misclassified [1] or kept secret because of bioterrorism laws [2]. > and they have also never caused a deadly global pandemic. Neither has a Chinese lab, to the best of our knowledge. Doesn't rule it out, but let's not jump to conclusions. [1] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/06/23/undisclosed-cdc-lab-incidents/86305700/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/06/23/undisclosed-c... [2] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/17/reports-of-incidents-at-bioterror-select-agent-labs/14140483/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/17/report...
soperj 6y ago
Would you then say that irresponsibly treating the virus within the US & other western countries actually caused the pandemic to be bigger than it should have been?
- pageandrew 6y ago
  Even the Western countries that "responsibly" treated the virus are having pretty serious surges now. I guess anything short of a total and complete lockdown was irresponsible. I'd say that the release of a highly transmissible and moderately lethal pathogen was the primary issue.
  - soperj 6y ago
    No surges right now in NZ or Australia. Interesting that the place that it actually originated in has no current surge either.
    - pageandrew 6y ago
      What do the three countries that you mentioned have in common? Total authoritarian lockdowns. Authoritarian lockdowns are effective at suppressing Covid. I won’t deny that. They’re also a complete non-starter in most countries in the world.
      - soperj 6y ago
        hahahaha. New Zealand has locked down for very little time. Weeks total. They've been open for concerts and everything else in between. The lockdowns would be over if countries had actually done them properly.

carols10cents 6y ago

1. Even if this particular virus didn't originate in our own house, if we want to demand openness and security from other countries, we in the US should start by being open with records of accidents and enhanced measures to prevent future accidents.

pageandrew 6y ago
Safety issues at US labs are not kept secret, as the author of the linked article has literally reported on them before, and they have also never caused a deadly global pandemic.
- gsk22 6y ago
  > Safety issues at US labs are not kept secret No, they are "inadvertently" misclassified [1] or kept secret because of bioterrorism laws [2]. > and they have also never caused a deadly global pandemic. Neither has a Chinese lab, to the best of our knowledge. Doesn't rule it out, but let's not jump to conclusions. [1] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/06/23/undisclosed-cdc-lab-incidents/86305700/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/06/23/undisclosed-c... [2] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/17/reports-of-incidents-at-bioterror-select-agent-labs/14140483/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/17/report...

soperj 6y ago

Would you then say that irresponsibly treating the virus within the US & other western countries actually caused the pandemic to be bigger than it should have been?

pageandrew 6y ago
Even the Western countries that "responsibly" treated the virus are having pretty serious surges now. I guess anything short of a total and complete lockdown was irresponsible. I'd say that the release of a highly transmissible and moderately lethal pathogen was the primary issue.
- soperj 6y ago
  No surges right now in NZ or Australia. Interesting that the place that it actually originated in has no current surge either.
  - pageandrew 6y ago
    What do the three countries that you mentioned have in common? Total authoritarian lockdowns. Authoritarian lockdowns are effective at suppressing Covid. I won’t deny that. They’re also a complete non-starter in most countries in the world.
    - soperj 6y ago
      hahahaha. New Zealand has locked down for very little time. Weeks total. They've been open for concerts and everything else in between. The lockdowns would be over if countries had actually done them properly.