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Interesting to see the differences in people. I've had a long career with very few rejections, but it has a lot to do with the fact that I don't apply to places

Interesting to see the differences in people. I've had a long career with very few rejections, but it has a lot to do with the fact that I don't apply to places unless I am really confident I am definitely going to be the best candidate, and that's generally been true. That said, I encourage folks on my team to interview regularly just to know how to value themselves and to see that there are other opportunities, and to just get practice interviewing and learning how other companies run the process. My rejections: - laid off from Red Hat post dot-bomb (I wasn't really trying to stay at the time) ~ 2003 - rejected for a sysadmin position at Blizzard in around 2003 or 4? - rejected from a lot of PhD programs in Physics (I wasn't really trying that hard, see a theme, it's called cognitive dissonance!) ~ 2008 - fired from Quora (honestly really just ended up misaligned with my boss and career goals, they made the right call) ~ 2014 - rejected from Stripe with two personal referrals after the last stage of the interview. I was pretty bummed by this and had spent a month putting all my eggs in one basket to work there. This was 2014 so I also missed out on a nice bit of stock to be honest! At my current company I feel like I finally had enough continuity to specialize a bit and become an expert in a field to feel comfortable with what ever may come next. I hope others can find that in their careers too.

foobarian 6y ago
It looks like it's pretty common to go interview just to "keep the skills sharp." What do folks think of this practice? I feel like I would have a hard time doing it while hiding my true motives. And what if they make an offer?
- safog 6y ago
  I think practice interviews are a thing but people generally do it only when they're actively in the process of moving jobs. e.g., I want a job at Facebook, so I'm going to go interview at some random startups first for sharpness. I haven't heard of anyone actually taking that advice literally and just randomly giving out interviews even when they have no intention of actually moving from their jobs.
- johnmaguire 6y ago
  I've always wondered about this too - I feel like I am wasting their time. > And what if they make an offer? I guess you choose whether to accept it or not. An offer does not oblige you to accept.
  - axaxs 6y ago
    I wouldn't feel that way. I'm one who did this for a while(at least, pre covid). The fact is, they could offer you an amazing package that will change your mind. Or, they could offer you something you expect but know you wouldn't take. Both are OK. I'd only think of it as a purposeful waste of time if for some reason you absolutely know you cannot take the job, regardless of anything.
- ssully 6y ago
  Just be honest with yourself and them. Say that you have a job that you are happy with, but assessing other opportunities. If they make an offer, you should be able to decide if it's right for you or not and move truthfully from there.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- Swizec 6y ago
  If they make an offer that’s motivating, you say yes and change jobs.
- codezero 6y ago
  Here’s how to align: even if you are not interested in joining, let them know what you would leave for, or a ballpark. If it’s way unaligned then just don’t continue past initial calls. I’ll be disappointed if I make an offer and find out they leveraged it for a promotion, but usually you don’t have to tell them anything. You can always say you just want more money and every company has a budget. You can also just keep in touch. Most folks who would make an offer are happy to talk to you again later or even further along in your career. I now have hired two people who I sent rejections to after four years! Some folks will frown on this but here is my philosophy: the company holds all the power, this is you as an individual developing an understanding of that system so it’s not at all unfair, since it started unfairly tilted against candidates - not everyone will agree, but the good news is that you won’t have to talk to the people who disagree again.
- benja123 6y ago
  So I will give you my perspective as a hiring manager and as someone who has interviewed quite a few times in my career. I personally encourage friends, especially those that have been at their job for 5+ years to go to interviews for roles they might find interesting, even if they have no plan of leaving their current role. I have been in the industry long enough to see companies cut ties with employees that have been with them for many years. If they are lucky it is not during a mass firing round, but if they are unlucky it is the result of a large firing round or worse yet a recession of some type. Job hunting and interviewing are at the end of the day a type of competition and if you want to be good at it you need to make sure you have practiced. The benefit of this, is if you make a point of going to interviews where you are still curious about the role, you may actually find your an unexpectedly amazing job and you also are more likely to get a much better offer than you ever would when you are actively looking. Now when I am a hiring manager, I have zero issue if someone comes with the intent of it being a practice interview. Why? Well, my job as a hiring manager is to win over the candidate to the role I am hiring for. It starts with the one on one, to the exercise I give and to the overall process being a nice experience. If I do those things correctly and the candidate is good, then it usually doesn’t matter what their original motive was for interviewing, they walk out of the process saying I want to work with that person and I want that job. I think a lot of companies don’t understand that the candidates are choosing you as much as you are choosing them. At least that is the way it should be.
delaynomore 6y ago
>I don't apply to places unless I am really confident I am definitely going to be the best candidate, and that's generally been true. Same. I've been extremely lucky that the only layoff I experienced was on first job out of school and on the first day ("we hired too many people"). The worst rejection I experienced was for a consulting position with a Big 4 consulting firm 10+ years ago. I bombed the brain teaser/problem solving question in the last round (IIRC, why are manhole covers round?). I could tell the interview went downhill after that exchange. At the time I had no prior consulting experience therefore I really wanted to pivot into consulting with that opening. Come to think of it, I have never asked any brain teaser questions like that in any of the interviews I conducted - maybe that's why. :) >just get practice interviewing and learning how other companies run the process I did it a few times but never felt the experience is comparable to looking for work "for real".
- throwanem 6y ago
  It's so they can't fall in the hole, but who asks a question like that in an interview anyway? Was it a civil engineering role?
  - bryik 6y ago
    "Why are manhole covers round" is an infamous Microsoft interview question. https://wiki.c2.com/?MicrosoftsManholeCoverQuestion https://wiki.c2.com/?MicrosoftsManholeCoverQuestion
  - ptsneves 6y ago
    My immediate answer would be it is because it eliminates a constraint. Thus placement is easier if alignment is not a constraint. Do not see much of a value in this kind of question except for amusement of the interviewer and check if the person is wired differently.
    - throwanem 6y ago
      I could see it being a fun kind of question to volley back and forth and maybe get a sense of how a candidate thinks. As an interviewee I could probably have some useful fun with it, but as an interviewer I wouldn't use it that way; there are other, more relevant, questions which could serve the same purpose just as well.
esel2k 6y ago
If you only applied to positions you knew where the best candidate - how did you not feel that the job would not offer you new challenges or the position is too low? I tend to keep interviewing or lets call it networking. The position I did fit a 100% I ended up declining as they were mostly position I thought I would go downwards in my career and pay, even if it sounded interesting. Glad you found that place of continuity - still trying to get there...
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  > I tend to keep interviewing or lets call it networking. Do you not find interviewing is super expensive in terms of time? My last interview was a four-day trip and about 40 hours of prep time before that. If I interviewed more than once or twice a year it'd be an enormous time sink. Maybe it pays off for you because you think the networking benefits are so high?
  - imhoguy 6y ago
    I don’t think about it as kind of waste, it is training to be mentally fit and ready when I find a better role or simply when bad times hit. Although 4 day trip interview is extreme, I would rather not go for unless they pay me. But things are even easier now, as most of recruitment is done remotely.
- codezero 6y ago
  For me it was a few lucky coincidences. I’ve never had concrete career goals, that’s step one of not being bothered by challenges. Step two, I’ve always worked at startups in relatively emerging markets, which means they are inherently new and challenging and that has fed that challenge/growth that I seek even though not necessarily tied to career growth explicitly. I’ve only started in my 40s to care about long term career growth, so go figure. I think the short answer is I’m highly internally motivated and seek out challenges no matter what so it’s not a thing I usually worry about.
WC3w6pXxgGd 6y ago
Something is very strange about the Stripe interview, even now. First time I was referred to Stripe, I got a rejection email an hour later (no interview even occurred). Second time, I did a coding exercise with no issues, passing all tests, but from the start I could tell the interviewer didn't like me (so I got a rejection).

foobarian 6y ago

It looks like it's pretty common to go interview just to "keep the skills sharp." What do folks think of this practice? I feel like I would have a hard time doing it while hiding my true motives. And what if they make an offer?

safog 6y ago
I think practice interviews are a thing but people generally do it only when they're actively in the process of moving jobs. e.g., I want a job at Facebook, so I'm going to go interview at some random startups first for sharpness. I haven't heard of anyone actually taking that advice literally and just randomly giving out interviews even when they have no intention of actually moving from their jobs.
johnmaguire 6y ago
I've always wondered about this too - I feel like I am wasting their time. > And what if they make an offer? I guess you choose whether to accept it or not. An offer does not oblige you to accept.
- axaxs 6y ago
  I wouldn't feel that way. I'm one who did this for a while(at least, pre covid). The fact is, they could offer you an amazing package that will change your mind. Or, they could offer you something you expect but know you wouldn't take. Both are OK. I'd only think of it as a purposeful waste of time if for some reason you absolutely know you cannot take the job, regardless of anything.
ssully 6y ago
Just be honest with yourself and them. Say that you have a job that you are happy with, but assessing other opportunities. If they make an offer, you should be able to decide if it's right for you or not and move truthfully from there.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Swizec 6y ago
If they make an offer that’s motivating, you say yes and change jobs.
codezero 6y ago
Here’s how to align: even if you are not interested in joining, let them know what you would leave for, or a ballpark. If it’s way unaligned then just don’t continue past initial calls. I’ll be disappointed if I make an offer and find out they leveraged it for a promotion, but usually you don’t have to tell them anything. You can always say you just want more money and every company has a budget. You can also just keep in touch. Most folks who would make an offer are happy to talk to you again later or even further along in your career. I now have hired two people who I sent rejections to after four years! Some folks will frown on this but here is my philosophy: the company holds all the power, this is you as an individual developing an understanding of that system so it’s not at all unfair, since it started unfairly tilted against candidates - not everyone will agree, but the good news is that you won’t have to talk to the people who disagree again.
benja123 6y ago
So I will give you my perspective as a hiring manager and as someone who has interviewed quite a few times in my career. I personally encourage friends, especially those that have been at their job for 5+ years to go to interviews for roles they might find interesting, even if they have no plan of leaving their current role. I have been in the industry long enough to see companies cut ties with employees that have been with them for many years. If they are lucky it is not during a mass firing round, but if they are unlucky it is the result of a large firing round or worse yet a recession of some type. Job hunting and interviewing are at the end of the day a type of competition and if you want to be good at it you need to make sure you have practiced. The benefit of this, is if you make a point of going to interviews where you are still curious about the role, you may actually find your an unexpectedly amazing job and you also are more likely to get a much better offer than you ever would when you are actively looking. Now when I am a hiring manager, I have zero issue if someone comes with the intent of it being a practice interview. Why? Well, my job as a hiring manager is to win over the candidate to the role I am hiring for. It starts with the one on one, to the exercise I give and to the overall process being a nice experience. If I do those things correctly and the candidate is good, then it usually doesn’t matter what their original motive was for interviewing, they walk out of the process saying I want to work with that person and I want that job. I think a lot of companies don’t understand that the candidates are choosing you as much as you are choosing them. At least that is the way it should be.

delaynomore 6y ago

>I don't apply to places unless I am really confident I am definitely going to be the best candidate, and that's generally been true. Same. I've been extremely lucky that the only layoff I experienced was on first job out of school and on the first day ("we hired too many people"). The worst rejection I experienced was for a consulting position with a Big 4 consulting firm 10+ years ago. I bombed the brain teaser/problem solving question in the last round (IIRC, why are manhole covers round?). I could tell the interview went downhill after that exchange. At the time I had no prior consulting experience therefore I really wanted to pivot into consulting with that opening. Come to think of it, I have never asked any brain teaser questions like that in any of the interviews I conducted - maybe that's why. :) >just get practice interviewing and learning how other companies run the process I did it a few times but never felt the experience is comparable to looking for work "for real".

throwanem 6y ago
It's so they can't fall in the hole, but who asks a question like that in an interview anyway? Was it a civil engineering role?
- bryik 6y ago
  "Why are manhole covers round" is an infamous Microsoft interview question. https://wiki.c2.com/?MicrosoftsManholeCoverQuestion https://wiki.c2.com/?MicrosoftsManholeCoverQuestion
- ptsneves 6y ago
  My immediate answer would be it is because it eliminates a constraint. Thus placement is easier if alignment is not a constraint. Do not see much of a value in this kind of question except for amusement of the interviewer and check if the person is wired differently.
  - throwanem 6y ago
    I could see it being a fun kind of question to volley back and forth and maybe get a sense of how a candidate thinks. As an interviewee I could probably have some useful fun with it, but as an interviewer I wouldn't use it that way; there are other, more relevant, questions which could serve the same purpose just as well.

esel2k 6y ago

If you only applied to positions you knew where the best candidate - how did you not feel that the job would not offer you new challenges or the position is too low? I tend to keep interviewing or lets call it networking. The position I did fit a 100% I ended up declining as they were mostly position I thought I would go downwards in my career and pay, even if it sounded interesting. Glad you found that place of continuity - still trying to get there...

chrisseaton 6y ago
> I tend to keep interviewing or lets call it networking. Do you not find interviewing is super expensive in terms of time? My last interview was a four-day trip and about 40 hours of prep time before that. If I interviewed more than once or twice a year it'd be an enormous time sink. Maybe it pays off for you because you think the networking benefits are so high?
- imhoguy 6y ago
  I don’t think about it as kind of waste, it is training to be mentally fit and ready when I find a better role or simply when bad times hit. Although 4 day trip interview is extreme, I would rather not go for unless they pay me. But things are even easier now, as most of recruitment is done remotely.
codezero 6y ago
For me it was a few lucky coincidences. I’ve never had concrete career goals, that’s step one of not being bothered by challenges. Step two, I’ve always worked at startups in relatively emerging markets, which means they are inherently new and challenging and that has fed that challenge/growth that I seek even though not necessarily tied to career growth explicitly. I’ve only started in my 40s to care about long term career growth, so go figure. I think the short answer is I’m highly internally motivated and seek out challenges no matter what so it’s not a thing I usually worry about.

WC3w6pXxgGd 6y ago

Something is very strange about the Stripe interview, even now. First time I was referred to Stripe, I got a rejection email an hour later (no interview even occurred). Second time, I did a coding exercise with no issues, passing all tests, but from the start I could tell the interviewer didn't like me (so I got a rejection).