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I think of consciousness as a feeling and nothing more. Similar to the feeling of free will, both are an "illusion" and we're not actually aware or free. The un

I think of consciousness as a feeling and nothing more. Similar to the feeling of free will, both are an "illusion" and we're not actually aware or free. The universe is made of instructions that everything follows and including us. We believing in awareness is just instructions for how we operate as subsystems of the Universe and like or unlike other subsystems of the universe. I find the idea simpler to grasp if you think of the Universe just bruteforcing every possible sequence of patterns and where we eventually have subsystems assuming they have awareness & free will.

coldtea 6y ago
Even if it was "just a feeling", who said a feeling is something simple? Feelings and qualia are just as mysteries as consciousness. The rest is reductionist. "The universe is made of instructions that everything follows and including us" is so 19th century. >We believing in awareness is just instructions for how we operate as subsystems of the Universe and like or unlike other subsystems of the universe. "Subsystems of the universe" merely running as automated systems based on rules have resulted in the Kardashians fanbase, people debating NY vs Chicago pizza, and OnlyFans?
fultonla 6y ago
So, what would you say a "feeling" is, exactly?
- tazjin 6y ago
  It's just a type of sensation!
  - IncRnd 6y ago
    That is not correct. Not all words mean the same as each other. A sensation is an experience. A feeling is an emotional state. Sometimes, a feeling is idiomatically thought of as an unfounded belief, which can be traced back to a belief founded on an emotional state.
nahuel0x 6y ago
But to feel is the core of consciousness/qualia. You can postulate free will as an illusion, but is harder with consciousness.
- vletal 6y ago
  Exactly. I struggle hard with this topic. I feel like being here, perceiving the world. Yet, if I simulated every molecule of my body, the simulated me would seemingly "feel" the same things, think likewise. It feels there is more to "me" than what would be of the _simulated_ me. On the other hand I see no way to prove so.
  - EMM_386 6y ago
    > Yet, if I simulated every molecule of my body This gets into the concept of free will. If you have free will, then it is your own conscious decisions that are affecting the universe, and not the universe affecting your conscious decisions. In this scenario, you can't "simulate every molecule" of your body, because that simulation will have to include whether or not you decided to touch that hot stove. And that decision rested solely with you, in your mind. If we do not have free will, and this whole thing is "on rails", then we are essentially watching an elaborate movie play out that we have no control over.
    - Afton 6y ago
      I don't see how this is related. I subscribe simultaneously to 'qualia is a real problem' and 'free will is an incoherent term'. I think whether you think a perfect simulation of a person has subjective experiences depends on what you think the substrate of that subjectivity is. If you think of it as a computational property then you'll be inclined to say "no, that simulation is experiencing things". If you think it is some kind of fundamental property of the universe, like pan-psychism, then you'll think the simulation is 'missing' subjectivity. Nothing in there about free will in my thinking.
  - JackFr 6y ago
    Consider the possibility that your brain is a liar. Maybe our brains, as an evolutionary strategy, have tricked us into believing that the universe is fundamentally knowable and that the brain is the only reliable knowledge machine. How would you know it's not true?
kiba 6y ago
I don't think free will is an illusion. Rather, I think it's complete nonsense. If we are completely deterministic, then the only way we can operate is deterministic. Now, if you're talking about agency. That's a bit different. We believing in awareness I don't think your answers suffice. Clearly, there's an operational definition of awareness as defined by outside observers. We can test if a person is aware or distinguish colors and even determine if ability to perceive colors remain the same across test subjects but we have no idea on how to access the subjective experience. Really, I don't think your explanation explains anything.
JackFr 6y ago
You sure use 'I' a lot for someone who believes in neither free will nor awareness.

coldtea 6y ago

Even if it was "just a feeling", who said a feeling is something simple? Feelings and qualia are just as mysteries as consciousness. The rest is reductionist. "The universe is made of instructions that everything follows and including us" is so 19th century. >We believing in awareness is just instructions for how we operate as subsystems of the Universe and like or unlike other subsystems of the universe. "Subsystems of the universe" merely running as automated systems based on rules have resulted in the Kardashians fanbase, people debating NY vs Chicago pizza, and OnlyFans?

fultonla 6y ago

So, what would you say a "feeling" is, exactly?

tazjin 6y ago
It's just a type of sensation!
- IncRnd 6y ago
  That is not correct. Not all words mean the same as each other. A sensation is an experience. A feeling is an emotional state. Sometimes, a feeling is idiomatically thought of as an unfounded belief, which can be traced back to a belief founded on an emotional state.

nahuel0x 6y ago

But to feel is the core of consciousness/qualia. You can postulate free will as an illusion, but is harder with consciousness.

vletal 6y ago
Exactly. I struggle hard with this topic. I feel like being here, perceiving the world. Yet, if I simulated every molecule of my body, the simulated me would seemingly "feel" the same things, think likewise. It feels there is more to "me" than what would be of the _simulated_ me. On the other hand I see no way to prove so.
- EMM_386 6y ago
  > Yet, if I simulated every molecule of my body This gets into the concept of free will. If you have free will, then it is your own conscious decisions that are affecting the universe, and not the universe affecting your conscious decisions. In this scenario, you can't "simulate every molecule" of your body, because that simulation will have to include whether or not you decided to touch that hot stove. And that decision rested solely with you, in your mind. If we do not have free will, and this whole thing is "on rails", then we are essentially watching an elaborate movie play out that we have no control over.
  - Afton 6y ago
    I don't see how this is related. I subscribe simultaneously to 'qualia is a real problem' and 'free will is an incoherent term'. I think whether you think a perfect simulation of a person has subjective experiences depends on what you think the substrate of that subjectivity is. If you think of it as a computational property then you'll be inclined to say "no, that simulation is experiencing things". If you think it is some kind of fundamental property of the universe, like pan-psychism, then you'll think the simulation is 'missing' subjectivity. Nothing in there about free will in my thinking.
- JackFr 6y ago
  Consider the possibility that your brain is a liar. Maybe our brains, as an evolutionary strategy, have tricked us into believing that the universe is fundamentally knowable and that the brain is the only reliable knowledge machine. How would you know it's not true?

kiba 6y ago

I don't think free will is an illusion. Rather, I think it's complete nonsense. If we are completely deterministic, then the only way we can operate is deterministic. Now, if you're talking about agency. That's a bit different. We believing in awareness I don't think your answers suffice. Clearly, there's an operational definition of awareness as defined by outside observers. We can test if a person is aware or distinguish colors and even determine if ability to perceive colors remain the same across test subjects but we have no idea on how to access the subjective experience. Really, I don't think your explanation explains anything.

JackFr 6y ago

You sure use 'I' a lot for someone who believes in neither free will nor awareness.