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Export? USA and UK bought those vaccines a year ago from Pfizer, Moderna, J&J and AstraZeneca. Warp Speed, USA gambled and the world is better because of it. T

Export? USA and UK bought those vaccines a year ago from Pfizer, Moderna, J&J and AstraZeneca. Warp Speed, USA gambled and the world is better because of it. They are contracts and dates on which x million doses are to be delivered by. Why didn't EU do the same? Crying now it's too late and a trade war can go both ways. Say, no vaccine would be produced unless a certain item that is produced in USA goes to a Belgium factory.

bryanlarsen 6y ago
> Why didn't EU do the same? Germany gave BioNTech 445M. The US didn't give Pfizer/BioNTech anything.
- Robotbeat 6y ago
  The US did, actually, by placing a firm order for vaccines.
  - bryanlarsen 6y ago
    The order was far from firm, Pfizer would have gotten $0 from the order if the vaccine didn't pass trials.
    - merpnderp 6y ago
      Far from firm? If I sign a contract to buy apples from you 6 months from now, but you show up with apple seeds, was my order not firm if I don't pay you? The fact is when Pfizer showed up with a vaccine, they knew they could sell $2 billion to the US and would have legal recourse if the US government didn't pay. That's as firm as it gets.
      - bryanlarsen 6y ago
        The participants in operation warp speed get paid whether or not their vaccine makes it through trials. To use your analogy, farmers can sign contracts for "all the apples that's produced this year" if they want to offload the risk of crop failure rather than a contract for a specific number of apples.
        merpnderp 6y ago
        A `firm order` is a business term to mean an order which is non-cancelable. It would be correct to say Pfizer was only tangentially connected to Warp Speed as Warp Speed money was used to place the firm order of $2 billion doses with Pfizer. Pfizer knew for a fact, even if COVID was miraculously cured, or it turned out there was a super cheap treatment, or anything that made their vaccine worthless, they could still sell $2 billion units to the US.
  - tempestn 6y ago
    So did many other countries. The US is getting those doses faster by preventing the Pfizer factories in the US from exporting any doses, so they have no choice but to sell all of that supply to the US. That's why Canada is getting all of the Pfizer/BioNTech doses it purchased from the Belgium factory rather than one right across the border in the US.
    - f6v 6y ago
      > The US is getting those doses faster by preventing the Pfizer factories in the US from exporting any doses With democrat president? Who would have thought.
the_why_of_y 6y ago
The EU did sign contracts. Unfortunately AstraZeneca is not going to be able to fulfill the contract, only delivering 30m out of 80m doses in Q1, with an even bigger shortfall expected for Q2. https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1372897665864830978 https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1372897665864830978
- legulere 6y ago
  AstraZeneca also exported EU stockpiles to the UK leading to this shortfall.
  - vinay427 6y ago
    The EU also hadn't approved the vaccine when those stockpiles were exported, and it was to compensate for UK domestic production shortfalls which the EU suffered from a few months later due in large part to the Commission delaying the contract. The UK got precedence because they were first in line and the EU couldn't yet use the vaccines.
    - legulere 6y ago
      Those were stockpiled for the EU. Meanwhile also the US has a stockpile of AstraZeneca vaccines, but none were exported.
  - youngtaff 6y ago
    Apparently not many doses have been exported from Halix in NL, and they have a stockpile of doses
    - markus92 6y ago
      A ton got exported in early January, although precise numbers don't seem to be public.
      - youngtaff 6y ago
gaha 6y ago
The EU did the same and they were also the ones funding the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine. But I agree with your other comment about the US. The EU should have done the same. Restrict all exports to other countries until x million is delivered domestically.
brmgb 6y ago
The USA negociated more slowly than the EU. The UK signed a research deal before the EU but didn't order until a week later. The only difference is that the EU remained truthful to the free market while both the USA and the UK put country first closes. > Crying now it's too late and a trade war can go both ways. There are no trade wars. Both the USA and the UK have shown themselves to be extremely unreliable partners which will not respect the rules they profess to believe in as soon as it doesn't favor them. That was already obvious with Trump and is only more obvious now. I fully expect the USA to lose its place as the main global power in the next decade if not sooner. The UK will probably pay the price a lot sooner as the EU is not going to forget and they have no other reliable ally.
- onetimemanytime 6y ago
  OK, show me a press release mentioning orders, contracts. "The EU reached a deal with Pfizer in November for 300 million doses and in January negotiated a preliminary deal for another 300 million." https://www.dw.com/en/eu-orders-300-million-more-biontech-pfizer-vaccine-doses/a-56502706 https://www.dw.com/en/eu-orders-300-million-more-biontech-pf... USA agreed to buy 100-500 Million in JULY 2020 https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/22/health/pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-government-contract/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/22/health/pfizer-covid-19-va... The fact is that EU is too slow, too risk adverse and 28 countries must agree. In USA the President winks, and it's done. (In this case it was beneficial.)
  - ben_w 6y ago
    > The fact is that EU is too slow, too risk adverse and 28 countries must agree. Not strictly true, as for these purposes the UK was still bound by EU rules until Jan 1st this year and did its own thing for the vaccinations without breaking those rules. The EU nations generally like to work together and negotiate as one, as doing so saves money; money was the wrong thing to optimise for in this case.
    - dumpsterdiver 6y ago
      > The EU nations generally like to work together and negotiate as one, as doing so saves money; money was the wrong thing to optimise for in this case. Right. Probably should have optimized for human life. Hindsight is 20/20.
chasd00 6y ago
I honestly think no one wanted to sign with the Trump admin. Remember, when the vaccines were being developed and worked on everyone was complaining about Trump rushing the vaccines and how they weren't going to be safe nor effective. If the EU signed on early they would be giving approval to Trump before the results were in.

bryanlarsen 6y ago

> Why didn't EU do the same? Germany gave BioNTech 445M. The US didn't give Pfizer/BioNTech anything.

Robotbeat 6y ago
The US did, actually, by placing a firm order for vaccines.
- bryanlarsen 6y ago
  The order was far from firm, Pfizer would have gotten $0 from the order if the vaccine didn't pass trials.
  - merpnderp 6y ago
    Far from firm? If I sign a contract to buy apples from you 6 months from now, but you show up with apple seeds, was my order not firm if I don't pay you? The fact is when Pfizer showed up with a vaccine, they knew they could sell $2 billion to the US and would have legal recourse if the US government didn't pay. That's as firm as it gets.
    - bryanlarsen 6y ago
      The participants in operation warp speed get paid whether or not their vaccine makes it through trials. To use your analogy, farmers can sign contracts for "all the apples that's produced this year" if they want to offload the risk of crop failure rather than a contract for a specific number of apples.
      - merpnderp 6y ago
        A `firm order` is a business term to mean an order which is non-cancelable. It would be correct to say Pfizer was only tangentially connected to Warp Speed as Warp Speed money was used to place the firm order of $2 billion doses with Pfizer. Pfizer knew for a fact, even if COVID was miraculously cured, or it turned out there was a super cheap treatment, or anything that made their vaccine worthless, they could still sell $2 billion units to the US.
- tempestn 6y ago
  So did many other countries. The US is getting those doses faster by preventing the Pfizer factories in the US from exporting any doses, so they have no choice but to sell all of that supply to the US. That's why Canada is getting all of the Pfizer/BioNTech doses it purchased from the Belgium factory rather than one right across the border in the US.
  - f6v 6y ago
    > The US is getting those doses faster by preventing the Pfizer factories in the US from exporting any doses With democrat president? Who would have thought.

the_why_of_y 6y ago

The EU did sign contracts. Unfortunately AstraZeneca is not going to be able to fulfill the contract, only delivering 30m out of 80m doses in Q1, with an even bigger shortfall expected for Q2. https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1372897665864830978 https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1372897665864830978

legulere 6y ago
AstraZeneca also exported EU stockpiles to the UK leading to this shortfall.
- vinay427 6y ago
  The EU also hadn't approved the vaccine when those stockpiles were exported, and it was to compensate for UK domestic production shortfalls which the EU suffered from a few months later due in large part to the Commission delaying the contract. The UK got precedence because they were first in line and the EU couldn't yet use the vaccines.
  - legulere 6y ago
    Those were stockpiled for the EU. Meanwhile also the US has a stockpile of AstraZeneca vaccines, but none were exported.
- youngtaff 6y ago
  Apparently not many doses have been exported from Halix in NL, and they have a stockpile of doses
  - markus92 6y ago
    A ton got exported in early January, although precise numbers don't seem to be public.
    - youngtaff 6y ago

gaha 6y ago

The EU did the same and they were also the ones funding the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine. But I agree with your other comment about the US. The EU should have done the same. Restrict all exports to other countries until x million is delivered domestically.

brmgb 6y ago

The USA negociated more slowly than the EU. The UK signed a research deal before the EU but didn't order until a week later. The only difference is that the EU remained truthful to the free market while both the USA and the UK put country first closes. > Crying now it's too late and a trade war can go both ways. There are no trade wars. Both the USA and the UK have shown themselves to be extremely unreliable partners which will not respect the rules they profess to believe in as soon as it doesn't favor them. That was already obvious with Trump and is only more obvious now. I fully expect the USA to lose its place as the main global power in the next decade if not sooner. The UK will probably pay the price a lot sooner as the EU is not going to forget and they have no other reliable ally.

onetimemanytime 6y ago
OK, show me a press release mentioning orders, contracts. "The EU reached a deal with Pfizer in November for 300 million doses and in January negotiated a preliminary deal for another 300 million." https://www.dw.com/en/eu-orders-300-million-more-biontech-pfizer-vaccine-doses/a-56502706 https://www.dw.com/en/eu-orders-300-million-more-biontech-pf... USA agreed to buy 100-500 Million in JULY 2020 https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/22/health/pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-government-contract/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/22/health/pfizer-covid-19-va... The fact is that EU is too slow, too risk adverse and 28 countries must agree. In USA the President winks, and it's done. (In this case it was beneficial.)
- ben_w 6y ago
  > The fact is that EU is too slow, too risk adverse and 28 countries must agree. Not strictly true, as for these purposes the UK was still bound by EU rules until Jan 1st this year and did its own thing for the vaccinations without breaking those rules. The EU nations generally like to work together and negotiate as one, as doing so saves money; money was the wrong thing to optimise for in this case.
  - dumpsterdiver 6y ago
    > The EU nations generally like to work together and negotiate as one, as doing so saves money; money was the wrong thing to optimise for in this case. Right. Probably should have optimized for human life. Hindsight is 20/20.

chasd00 6y ago

I honestly think no one wanted to sign with the Trump admin. Remember, when the vaccines were being developed and worked on everyone was complaining about Trump rushing the vaccines and how they weren't going to be safe nor effective. If the EU signed on early they would be giving approval to Trump before the results were in.