5 ms·

I really struggled with the author's tone. It dripped of condescension towards those who live a "normal" lifestyle. I enjoy working. I find purpose and meani

by eric_b 6y ago

I really struggled with the author's tone. It dripped of condescension towards those who live a "normal" lifestyle. I enjoy working. I find purpose and meaning it. I do not let it dominate my life, but without it I would feel incomplete. I run my own business now, and that is very satisfying - but even when I was a corporate consultant I found a lot of enjoyment from spending time with my coworkers, solving problems, and having something to do every day. For me anyways, a nice salary is also a form of validation and affirmation. That the effort you're expending is valued - at least by someone.

ericd 6y ago
Eh the author was writing, not doing nothing. They just didn't have to worry about whether what they were doing could generate an income.
- eric_b 6y ago
  Umm... I didn't say he was doing nothing... But to further clarify - My point was that work/income generation can add meaning and validation for lots of folks. Even the author hints at this - his writing wasn't taking off, no one was reading what he wrote, and he was getting discouraged. I dabble making music. I'm pretty good at it by hobbyist standards, but if I ever tried it "full time" no one would pay me and I'd never get huge. That's just the breaks in creative endeavors. My point is that I'd need a heck of a lot more validation and affirmation in my life than making music no one listens to. I suspect the same is true of the author and his writing.
  - ericd 6y ago
    You're right, I should've said he was working, just not for money. Your post seemed to be about how you enjoyed working, and how he was being condescending toward that, and that's why I mentioned that he was also working. You like running a business, he likes writing. I thought the condescension in the author's post was more towards getting validation from buying material things and basing their sense of self-worth on that, and a criticism of that part of our culture, not so much toward the idea of people working for money in and of itself. But that's a very fair point you make, about the need for validation, and how people get it from a job.
mcguire 6y ago
"...she had acquired, somehow, New Life Dreams, which had to do with Conspicuous Consumption and Keeping Up and being Visibly Awesome..." I was thinking the same thing: geeze, isn't there anything between virtue signalling early retirement and conspicuous consumption?
- ssully 6y ago
  He mulls over and comes to the conclusion later in his post that he probably could have done more to save his relationship. Just based off of the sentence you quoted and other things he said, I wouldn't be surprised if he was very dismissive of his ex-wifes struggle to find meaning, or desire to go back to work. Cheating is terrible, but having a partner who doesn't try to see your struggles can be crippling.
  - joshuaissac 6y ago
    > I wouldn't be surprised if he was very dismissive of his ex-wifes struggle to find meaning, or desire to go back to work. What you are saying is in direct contradiction with what he says in the article: > I encouraged her to explore her own life and find activities and goals that would help her feel better. I suggested therapy and offered to go with her. I was clear that if she wanted to go back to work I was eager to support her in this. I wanted her to do anything that might help. But my suggestions and support weren’t enough
    - ryandrake 6y ago
      Yea it sounds like he just didn't really beta test his FI ideas with his wife before launching, and then found out later that they have an irreconcilably different view of what life should be all about. She wanted to keep up with mythical Joneses and he didn't. Things were fine while their interests were aligned (accumulating wealth), but went south when the appearance of "falling behind" started in. I don't think anyone was wrong here (besides the infidelity)--just different world views that ended up being incompatible. If I wasn't married with a kid, I'd be retired right now. I'd be perfectly content buying a $25K plot of land in the desert, parking a mobile home on it, and living out the rest of my life on $10-20K/year, but there's just no way on earth they'd stick around for that! Your FIRE plan needs to work with your whole family.
resonantjacket5 6y ago
tbf he does talk throughout the post about what he was missing out by not having a "normal" lifestyle.
pbuzbee 6y ago
It is a little condescending, but I think it serves the purpose of illustrating the divide the author feels between himself and his peers. It's hard to relate when one side sees work as time spent purely for money, and another sees work as a source of satisfaction.
fullshark 6y ago
The only condescension I felt was towards his partner's supposed thinking, which if you read on (spoilers) is presumably due to a nasty breakup + cheating episode leading to an inability to view her position objectively anymore.

by eric_b 6y ago

ericd 6y ago

Eh the author was writing, not doing nothing. They just didn't have to worry about whether what they were doing could generate an income.

eric_b 6y ago
Umm... I didn't say he was doing nothing... But to further clarify - My point was that work/income generation can add meaning and validation for lots of folks. Even the author hints at this - his writing wasn't taking off, no one was reading what he wrote, and he was getting discouraged. I dabble making music. I'm pretty good at it by hobbyist standards, but if I ever tried it "full time" no one would pay me and I'd never get huge. That's just the breaks in creative endeavors. My point is that I'd need a heck of a lot more validation and affirmation in my life than making music no one listens to. I suspect the same is true of the author and his writing.
- ericd 6y ago
  You're right, I should've said he was working, just not for money. Your post seemed to be about how you enjoyed working, and how he was being condescending toward that, and that's why I mentioned that he was also working. You like running a business, he likes writing. I thought the condescension in the author's post was more towards getting validation from buying material things and basing their sense of self-worth on that, and a criticism of that part of our culture, not so much toward the idea of people working for money in and of itself. But that's a very fair point you make, about the need for validation, and how people get it from a job.

mcguire 6y ago

"...she had acquired, somehow, New Life Dreams, which had to do with Conspicuous Consumption and Keeping Up and being Visibly Awesome..." I was thinking the same thing: geeze, isn't there anything between virtue signalling early retirement and conspicuous consumption?

ssully 6y ago
He mulls over and comes to the conclusion later in his post that he probably could have done more to save his relationship. Just based off of the sentence you quoted and other things he said, I wouldn't be surprised if he was very dismissive of his ex-wifes struggle to find meaning, or desire to go back to work. Cheating is terrible, but having a partner who doesn't try to see your struggles can be crippling.
- joshuaissac 6y ago
  > I wouldn't be surprised if he was very dismissive of his ex-wifes struggle to find meaning, or desire to go back to work. What you are saying is in direct contradiction with what he says in the article: > I encouraged her to explore her own life and find activities and goals that would help her feel better. I suggested therapy and offered to go with her. I was clear that if she wanted to go back to work I was eager to support her in this. I wanted her to do anything that might help. But my suggestions and support weren’t enough
  - ryandrake 6y ago
    Yea it sounds like he just didn't really beta test his FI ideas with his wife before launching, and then found out later that they have an irreconcilably different view of what life should be all about. She wanted to keep up with mythical Joneses and he didn't. Things were fine while their interests were aligned (accumulating wealth), but went south when the appearance of "falling behind" started in. I don't think anyone was wrong here (besides the infidelity)--just different world views that ended up being incompatible. If I wasn't married with a kid, I'd be retired right now. I'd be perfectly content buying a $25K plot of land in the desert, parking a mobile home on it, and living out the rest of my life on $10-20K/year, but there's just no way on earth they'd stick around for that! Your FIRE plan needs to work with your whole family.

resonantjacket5 6y ago

tbf he does talk throughout the post about what he was missing out by not having a "normal" lifestyle.

pbuzbee 6y ago

It is a little condescending, but I think it serves the purpose of illustrating the divide the author feels between himself and his peers. It's hard to relate when one side sees work as time spent purely for money, and another sees work as a source of satisfaction.

fullshark 6y ago

The only condescension I felt was towards his partner's supposed thinking, which if you read on (spoilers) is presumably due to a nasty breakup + cheating episode leading to an inability to view her position objectively anymore.