4 ms·

Before the zillow/redfin days the only way to see houses for sale was to physically observe the for sale sign or look in the newspaper. The NAR keeps a tight fi

Before the zillow/redfin days the only way to see houses for sale was to physically observe the for sale sign or look in the newspaper. The NAR keeps a tight fist around the MLS where for-sale homes appear. Even with all the online information there's plenty of "secret" info in the Realtors-Only MLS notes. The information asymmetry is absolutely bonkers in real estate.

lotsofpulp 6y ago
I fully support more transparency and accessibility of information. I think governments should make the details of real estate transactions easily searchable, and most do in the US! But if a group of people want to organize and maintain that info in a certain way, and have their notes, and get paid for doing that, is that not their right?
- Robotbeat 6y ago
  Is it their right to restrict info by leveraging IP law on other people? They use that IP law to grant themselves information asymmetry to gain 6% commissions whereas many countries have commissions half that. IP law is not a natural right but is instead granted by the government to try to enhance the common good. So therefore whether it is their “right” is somewhat contingent on their use of IP law actually benefitting the nation. If it’s not beneficial and is just increasing fees, then it should be curtailed.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    > Is it their right to restrict info by leveraging IP law on other people? Did they create/curate the info? If so, then yes, just like anyone else is able to use IP laws. > They use that IP law to grant themselves information asymmetry to gain 6% commissions whereas many countries have commissions half that. No, they use supply and demand for their services to collect 6% commission. And it’s very negotiable, also showing that the amount a real estate agent charges is due to supply and demand. I’m only familiar with the way real estate agents work in the US, so I can’t comment on how it works in other countries. But all I can say is, in my experience, the sales history data is all available on the government website, and otherwise, you’re paying for the marketing and whatnot. If you don’t like the price, then negotiate lower, and if that fails, don’t pay it and do the work yourself.
    - lupire 6y ago
      They use a cartel/trust to collect 6%, which is only legal because it is possible to negotiate a discount and it's hard to prove that the cartel is freezing out discount agents.
    - whimsicalism 6y ago
      > No, they use supply and demand for their services to collect 6% commission. And it’s very negotiable, also showing that the amount a real estate agent charges is due to supply and demand. Actually, no. There is extensive evidence that real estate commissions are not tied to supply & demand due to collusion in the marketplace. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3450767 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3450767
- Domenic_S 6y ago
  I think it probably is their right, yes. I was responding to "nobody's forcing you to use an agent" which is technically true, but functionally you're operating at a substantial disadvantage if you do (don't).
- datavirtue 6y ago
  That is anti-free market activity. Unethical by US standards.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
mattnewton 6y ago
This, I hired a buyer's agent simply because even sites like Zillow had huge gaps when trying to put together comparable houses on an offer. The information alone was nearly worth the entire commission for me.
- twiddling 6y ago
  Some neighborhoods have houses listed in the "informal markets" ( community of like minded brokers who wish to maintain the "feel of the place")
bena 6y ago
I think this is often the case where the only real product is information. If you and I have the same information as the agents, then their use goes down a lot.

lotsofpulp 6y ago

I fully support more transparency and accessibility of information. I think governments should make the details of real estate transactions easily searchable, and most do in the US! But if a group of people want to organize and maintain that info in a certain way, and have their notes, and get paid for doing that, is that not their right?

Robotbeat 6y ago
Is it their right to restrict info by leveraging IP law on other people? They use that IP law to grant themselves information asymmetry to gain 6% commissions whereas many countries have commissions half that. IP law is not a natural right but is instead granted by the government to try to enhance the common good. So therefore whether it is their “right” is somewhat contingent on their use of IP law actually benefitting the nation. If it’s not beneficial and is just increasing fees, then it should be curtailed.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  > Is it their right to restrict info by leveraging IP law on other people? Did they create/curate the info? If so, then yes, just like anyone else is able to use IP laws. > They use that IP law to grant themselves information asymmetry to gain 6% commissions whereas many countries have commissions half that. No, they use supply and demand for their services to collect 6% commission. And it’s very negotiable, also showing that the amount a real estate agent charges is due to supply and demand. I’m only familiar with the way real estate agents work in the US, so I can’t comment on how it works in other countries. But all I can say is, in my experience, the sales history data is all available on the government website, and otherwise, you’re paying for the marketing and whatnot. If you don’t like the price, then negotiate lower, and if that fails, don’t pay it and do the work yourself.
  - lupire 6y ago
    They use a cartel/trust to collect 6%, which is only legal because it is possible to negotiate a discount and it's hard to prove that the cartel is freezing out discount agents.
  - whimsicalism 6y ago
    > No, they use supply and demand for their services to collect 6% commission. And it’s very negotiable, also showing that the amount a real estate agent charges is due to supply and demand. Actually, no. There is extensive evidence that real estate commissions are not tied to supply & demand due to collusion in the marketplace. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3450767 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3450767
Domenic_S 6y ago
I think it probably is their right, yes. I was responding to "nobody's forcing you to use an agent" which is technically true, but functionally you're operating at a substantial disadvantage if you do (don't).
datavirtue 6y ago
That is anti-free market activity. Unethical by US standards.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

mattnewton 6y ago

This, I hired a buyer's agent simply because even sites like Zillow had huge gaps when trying to put together comparable houses on an offer. The information alone was nearly worth the entire commission for me.

twiddling 6y ago
Some neighborhoods have houses listed in the "informal markets" ( community of like minded brokers who wish to maintain the "feel of the place")

bena 6y ago

I think this is often the case where the only real product is information. If you and I have the same information as the agents, then their use goes down a lot.