4 ms·

So it seems clear to me? You don't want to use the language, you don't want to learn the language, no-one is forcing you to use the language, then don't use the

by q3k 6y ago

So it seems clear to me? You don't want to use the language, you don't want to learn the language, no-one is forcing you to use the language, then don't use the language. What are your expectations? Is it that every language should be readable to people who know Perl? Is it that you shouldn't be reading or modifying the source code of open source projects? How could this work better in an ideal world? I am puzzled.

doublerabbit 6y ago
Why are you turning this in to such a pedantic thing? I am not a programmer. I am a systems administrator who administrates systems. Is that not easy to grasp? When my job is 98.9% something else than programming, I'd rather be learning AI, Robotics, History, Psychics, Gardening, Glass Blowing than a language I'll never use. I've explained it a case of "Can you get this to work" Yes/No. If no, I move on to something else. That's my line of work. If you want me to monitor,configure,administrate something, then it should be simple. Presented to me in one folder with all packages not downloaded from some corporate hell-hole of a website because it's the norm for younger developers. Am I not allowed to have that opinion? I will research on how to operate but that's it. Life's busy enough that I don't have time to further research on how to setup individual environments. I've just wasted 10 minutes typing this message to reply rather then configuring an openldap server for user authentication, Luckily I'm on lunch.
- q3k 6y ago
  I'm not trying to be pedantic. Please do not assume bad faith. I'm just trying to understand that worldview, which just seems drastically different from mine, even though we both seem to be generalists. If there is something that Go, or any other product, could do better to be better suited to your workflow, I would like to know what it is. I don't write Perl, but if I had to qualify some piece of software that used it at work, I would make time then to learn as much of the basics of it that is needed to more easily get by. Even if it meant a day of reading Perl/CPAN docs to do 15 minutes of actual 'work', especially if the alternative is one or two days of blindly stumbling around to then not even be exactly sure if my 'yes/no' answer was correct. I don't even see much of a difference between learning something and just working with it - I can't imagine not having a browser window open with the docs/source code/whatever of what I'm currently working with. In that way I've learned a fair bit of technologies I would have never touched otherwise, but now their knowledge, even at a surface level, is worth more than the sum of the products.
  - doublerabbit 6y ago
    I mean no offense and sorry for my angst if it came that way. It's frustrating when I can't paint my view and then get battled to death because of it. TCL. TCL is the only language workflow that has worked for without any stress. proc SomeProcedure {variable} { Code it to do something for yourself } save, run and it works. No need to include modules, no need to download anything. I use my own TK/Gui interface which does stuff for me to make my life easier. And if I handed it to you, it would be in one folder with all files present no dependencies required. However I understand life is not like that unfortunately. > I can't imagine not having a browser window open with the docs/source code/whatever of what I'm currently working with. I don't. If at any point I need source code, I'll download it locally and compile/run it first. Then edit it learn the logic and flow of the program. I'm in terminal 99% of the time, orchestrating systems ranging from FreeBSD to Linux and AIX, if a browser is open it's for Slack, emails. I am someone who wants to type "man something" and get a man page of it. vim Library/file.pm and be able to view the code under the hood for that specific project. That's simplicity and that's how it should be -- The over-hassle of downloading from git, forking it, apply push,pull changes just isn't my street specially assuming my box I'm working with has internet.
    - hnlmorg 6y ago
      The issue is you presented opinion as fact. Opinion: I don't enjoy Go as much as Perl. [PASS] Opinion: I'm more comfortable with Perl because I've spent more time in it. [PASS] Both are perfectly acceptable. However you made comments about objective truths that were incorrect: Truth: Go doesn't download modules to disk. [FAIL] For what it's worth, I really like Perl too. Us two are a dying breed in that regard. I was in two minds whether to reply because of that respect I have for fellow Perl hackers. But you kept repeating the same falsehoods as fact :( Take your latest comment for example, you can bring up the Go docs for packages in the terminal as well: go doc $PACKAGE So even there your Perl point is still equivalent to Go on an objective level. But I don't blame you for not liking/enjoying a language on a personal level.
      - doublerabbit 6y ago

by q3k 6y ago

doublerabbit 6y ago

Why are you turning this in to such a pedantic thing? I am not a programmer. I am a systems administrator who administrates systems. Is that not easy to grasp? When my job is 98.9% something else than programming, I'd rather be learning AI, Robotics, History, Psychics, Gardening, Glass Blowing than a language I'll never use. I've explained it a case of "Can you get this to work" Yes/No. If no, I move on to something else. That's my line of work. If you want me to monitor,configure,administrate something, then it should be simple. Presented to me in one folder with all packages not downloaded from some corporate hell-hole of a website because it's the norm for younger developers. Am I not allowed to have that opinion? I will research on how to operate but that's it. Life's busy enough that I don't have time to further research on how to setup individual environments. I've just wasted 10 minutes typing this message to reply rather then configuring an openldap server for user authentication, Luckily I'm on lunch.

q3k 6y ago
I'm not trying to be pedantic. Please do not assume bad faith. I'm just trying to understand that worldview, which just seems drastically different from mine, even though we both seem to be generalists. If there is something that Go, or any other product, could do better to be better suited to your workflow, I would like to know what it is. I don't write Perl, but if I had to qualify some piece of software that used it at work, I would make time then to learn as much of the basics of it that is needed to more easily get by. Even if it meant a day of reading Perl/CPAN docs to do 15 minutes of actual 'work', especially if the alternative is one or two days of blindly stumbling around to then not even be exactly sure if my 'yes/no' answer was correct. I don't even see much of a difference between learning something and just working with it - I can't imagine not having a browser window open with the docs/source code/whatever of what I'm currently working with. In that way I've learned a fair bit of technologies I would have never touched otherwise, but now their knowledge, even at a surface level, is worth more than the sum of the products.
- doublerabbit 6y ago
  I mean no offense and sorry for my angst if it came that way. It's frustrating when I can't paint my view and then get battled to death because of it. TCL. TCL is the only language workflow that has worked for without any stress. proc SomeProcedure {variable} { Code it to do something for yourself } save, run and it works. No need to include modules, no need to download anything. I use my own TK/Gui interface which does stuff for me to make my life easier. And if I handed it to you, it would be in one folder with all files present no dependencies required. However I understand life is not like that unfortunately. > I can't imagine not having a browser window open with the docs/source code/whatever of what I'm currently working with. I don't. If at any point I need source code, I'll download it locally and compile/run it first. Then edit it learn the logic and flow of the program. I'm in terminal 99% of the time, orchestrating systems ranging from FreeBSD to Linux and AIX, if a browser is open it's for Slack, emails. I am someone who wants to type "man something" and get a man page of it. vim Library/file.pm and be able to view the code under the hood for that specific project. That's simplicity and that's how it should be -- The over-hassle of downloading from git, forking it, apply push,pull changes just isn't my street specially assuming my box I'm working with has internet.
  - hnlmorg 6y ago
    The issue is you presented opinion as fact. Opinion: I don't enjoy Go as much as Perl. [PASS] Opinion: I'm more comfortable with Perl because I've spent more time in it. [PASS] Both are perfectly acceptable. However you made comments about objective truths that were incorrect: Truth: Go doesn't download modules to disk. [FAIL] For what it's worth, I really like Perl too. Us two are a dying breed in that regard. I was in two minds whether to reply because of that respect I have for fellow Perl hackers. But you kept repeating the same falsehoods as fact :( Take your latest comment for example, you can bring up the Go docs for packages in the terminal as well: go doc $PACKAGE So even there your Perl point is still equivalent to Go on an objective level. But I don't blame you for not liking/enjoying a language on a personal level.
    - doublerabbit 6y ago