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Moreover, I don't want to be on a highway with people driving cars with code they modified. Ideally, we would have an model where the source for all of the comp

by pradn 6y ago

Moreover, I don't want to be on a highway with people driving cars with code they modified. Ideally, we would have an model where the source for all of the components is visible, with customers able to make suggestions, but with the vendor responsible for all safety testing.

stonemetal12 6y ago
That is where you are today, any Joe on the road could have changed their own brakes, added a turbo to their engine, or made any number of safety modifications to their vehicle.
- ironman1478 6y ago
  That's extremely different. Those parts are made by company's that work with car brands to make compliant parts. Changing the software is a totally different problem.
  - stonemetal12 6y ago
    >Those parts are made by company's that work with car brands to make compliant parts. You have some written guarantee that Joe didn't zip tie some frozen hot dogs to his brake calipers so he could make dinner and stop his car? I don't. I don't get why only Tesla should write engine software for their car, and completely lockout "Joe's all pro turbo" from doing the same. I can get a custom rom for my car now, so why can't I for the Tesla? I get it voids warranties, but not at all is a problem.
  - marcodiego 6y ago
    I don't know if they are that different. I met a biker once who told how he designed his own automatic speed-control. Asked him to see it. What he showed me was a lock on the gas. Seemed very dangerous to me. Also, another guy showed me a contraption he built himself for a stick car. He put a sensor on the stick and whenever the sensor detected his hand, a servo automatically pressed the clutch pedal. It also automatically slowly releases the clutch pedal when his hand was removed from the stick. These are all electronic and/or mechanical systems and a mistake on its software or mechanical design may impact the safety of the vehicle. I got negatively impressed in both cases and told them that it was probably illegal. But well, my car... I would love to be abe to have access to the code. Not that I want to check or modify it myself, but the fact the I know anyone can check. The same reason I like to use FLOSS on my own machine. Actually, for safety reasons, it makes sense for it to signed, but I wan to be able to access it. If it was in ROM, maybe I wouldn't care. If it needs a critical update, would not bother going for a recall. Actually I think forcing ROM for safety critical software would encourage developers to make it right at the first try since it would be way more expensive to fix it later; probably would make engineers design systems as simple as they possibly can. The auto clutch I saw was similar to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2J6uQH-khY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2J6uQH-khY
- packetlost 6y ago
  As someone involved in modified cars, these are very different things. There's only 1 real way to change your brakes. It's like LEGO, except with a couple of bolts and some metal pads. Adding a turbo increases power (or fuel economy) but isn't going to cause your car to accelerate on it's own. Or lockup steering. Or push timing and blow holes in your engine sidewall. All that stuff is computer controlled in modern cars, and you bet your ass you can cause some extremely catastrophic failures just with poorly implemented software.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]

by pradn 6y ago

stonemetal12 6y ago

That is where you are today, any Joe on the road could have changed their own brakes, added a turbo to their engine, or made any number of safety modifications to their vehicle.

ironman1478 6y ago
That's extremely different. Those parts are made by company's that work with car brands to make compliant parts. Changing the software is a totally different problem.
- stonemetal12 6y ago
  >Those parts are made by company's that work with car brands to make compliant parts. You have some written guarantee that Joe didn't zip tie some frozen hot dogs to his brake calipers so he could make dinner and stop his car? I don't. I don't get why only Tesla should write engine software for their car, and completely lockout "Joe's all pro turbo" from doing the same. I can get a custom rom for my car now, so why can't I for the Tesla? I get it voids warranties, but not at all is a problem.
- marcodiego 6y ago
  I don't know if they are that different. I met a biker once who told how he designed his own automatic speed-control. Asked him to see it. What he showed me was a lock on the gas. Seemed very dangerous to me. Also, another guy showed me a contraption he built himself for a stick car. He put a sensor on the stick and whenever the sensor detected his hand, a servo automatically pressed the clutch pedal. It also automatically slowly releases the clutch pedal when his hand was removed from the stick. These are all electronic and/or mechanical systems and a mistake on its software or mechanical design may impact the safety of the vehicle. I got negatively impressed in both cases and told them that it was probably illegal. But well, my car... I would love to be abe to have access to the code. Not that I want to check or modify it myself, but the fact the I know anyone can check. The same reason I like to use FLOSS on my own machine. Actually, for safety reasons, it makes sense for it to signed, but I wan to be able to access it. If it was in ROM, maybe I wouldn't care. If it needs a critical update, would not bother going for a recall. Actually I think forcing ROM for safety critical software would encourage developers to make it right at the first try since it would be way more expensive to fix it later; probably would make engineers design systems as simple as they possibly can. The auto clutch I saw was similar to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2J6uQH-khY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2J6uQH-khY
packetlost 6y ago
As someone involved in modified cars, these are very different things. There's only 1 real way to change your brakes. It's like LEGO, except with a couple of bolts and some metal pads. Adding a turbo increases power (or fuel economy) but isn't going to cause your car to accelerate on it's own. Or lockup steering. Or push timing and blow holes in your engine sidewall. All that stuff is computer controlled in modern cars, and you bet your ass you can cause some extremely catastrophic failures just with poorly implemented software.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]